Author Topic: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth  (Read 9235 times)

Offline Juan Conejero

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Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« on: 2015 May 19 02:38:53 »
Hi all,

I have been alerted about a thread on Cloudy Nights forums, where some users focus on a recurrent topic: Star colors are destroyed by PixInsight (and also by other applications). This statement, of course, is not true, and since we have read the same opinions (with variants) too many times, I have decided to make a singular exception in this case to comment on opinions about our software posted on other public forums.

One of the interveners in the same CN thread has posted a link to a TIFF image, where the 'color destruction' problem is supposed to be verifiable. I hope he won't mind if I download the image to perform a few tests in PixInsight.

Here is the original 16-bit integer TIFF image open in PixInsight:


The image has a strong color cast, which can be identified as the misaligned histogram peaks on the figure above. This cast (actually, a different additive pedestal applied to each channel) can be removed very easily by clicking the AutoZero Shadows button on the HistogramTransformation tool:


Assuming that the intent is to get neutral gray stars in the upper row (from the 1:1:1 color ratios written on the image), the next thing to note in this image is that the highlights are also unbalanced, since the stars in the top row have a strong green cast:


This can be fixed very easily with PixelMath or ColorCalibration. However, to keep this example as simple as possible, and since its purpose is just to demonstrate how star colors can be preserved easily and efficiently, I'll continue without altering the original white point of the image.

I'll implement two simplified approaches to stretch this image without damaging color in the highlights. The first approach involves the MaskedStretch tool and a relatively strong application of ColorSaturation:


As you can see, especially if you look at the full-size screenshot, not only color has not been damaged, but no pixel has been saturated on the brightest stars after the stretch. Obviously, some saturated pixels on the cores of the brightest stars in the original image remain saturated.

The second approach uses a poorly-known image analysis tool: AdaptiveStretch. This tool computes an optimal brightness/contrast transformation based on existing pixel-to-pixel relations and an initial noise estimate:


After AdaptiveStretch I have applied a moderately strong curve to the CIE c* component, to increase color saturation. The result is more noisy (this can be controlled easily with the noise threshold parameter of AdaptiveStretch), but shows a different way to face this test problem, from a more theoretical perspective that allows us to understand the relationships between signal, noise and color.

In real-world images, combinations of the HistogramTransformation and MaskedStretch tools, along with suitable protection masks generated mainly with the HistogramTransformation, CurvesTransformation, StarMask and RangeSelection tools, provide us with powerful ways to control image stretching, noise and color saturation in PixInsight. This is real image processing: identify and understand the problems first, then design appropriate strategies to solve them efficiently.

As for other "methods" referred to on the CN thread, I'll make no additional comments. As you can imagine, I have zero interest in the promotion of practices based on the lack of knowledge about fundamental image processing topics.
Juan Conejero
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Offline cdesselles

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #1 on: 2015 May 22 16:51:25 »
Maybe you should duplicate this post on the Cloudy Nights forum as a rebuttal.
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Offline Nocturnal

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #2 on: 2015 May 23 22:29:19 »
Strange. I've never had trouble with star colors disappearing in PI. In fact the tutorial series I wrote from Astro Photo Insight years ago showed an easy method to increase saturation in bright areas (luminance masked saturation curves) that produces great star color. Luckily I had not heard of this absurd color destruction myth. What bollocks.
Best,

    Sander
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Offline jkmorse

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #3 on: 2015 May 26 12:05:10 »
Nocturnal and Juan,

Wholeheartedly agree.  One of the reasons I turned away from the $600 solution and to PI was that the colors are much more natural and pronounced in PI without the need for obvious data manipulation and distortion.  Problem with these posts, like so many of that vein, is someone "testing" PI without the slightest effort to even master the basics before they pronounce judgment.

As you said, what bullocks!

Best,

Jim   
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Offline vicent_peris

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #4 on: 2015 May 26 14:32:34 »
Hi,

I think my article on dynamic range compression could be a good addition to this thread:

http://pixinsight.com/tutorials/NGC7023-HDR/index.html


Best regards,
Vicent.

Offline Nocturnal

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #5 on: 2015 May 26 15:00:29 »
Which reminds me to re-read that again. So many gems in that. It'll also go right over the heads of the typical PI critic so perhaps not the best choice :)
Best,

    Sander
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Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #6 on: 2015 May 28 04:18:06 »
Maybe you should duplicate this post on the Cloudy Nights forum as a rebuttal.

I never participate in other amateur astrophotography forums. In my opinion, professional developers responsible for commercial software applications should never enter public discussions where the topics involve opinions about their own products or competing products. Doing that is a serious error from my experience, since a developer can never be seen as an unbiased source. By participating in public forums, one always ends up looking like a door to door salesman, which is just pathetic.

So whenever I have something to say (other than the software I write, which is unusual), I'll say it here and nowhere else.
Juan Conejero
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Offline NGC7789

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #7 on: 2015 May 28 04:22:03 »
But of course nothing would stop one of us from putting a link to this thread on CN  ;)

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #8 on: 2015 May 28 11:18:57 »
It's a free world ;) But I'm not sure it would be a good idea in this case. The thread in question is pretty nonsensical IMO.
Juan Conejero
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Offline NGC7789

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #9 on: 2015 May 28 11:28:48 »
Yes. I just finally read the CN thread. I will stay here in the safe happy confines of the PI fora.

Offline iksose7

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #10 on: 2015 May 31 08:18:35 »
Retaining and showing off a rich field of colorful stars was one of the first things that got me hooked on PI. I used another well know bit of software for over a year and always ended up with bloated, white blobs! I'm glad you have taken the time here to put the matter to bed.

Callum

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #11 on: 2015 June 11 23:13:19 »
Please excuse me for butting in among such learned people. But I suspect that a large part of the problem is misapplication of DSLR_RAW preprocessing. Improper preprocessing techniques applied to DSLR_RAW data often leads to an inability to properly stretch and saturate an image.  Regardless of the software, the same complaints arise, in which it is assumed that the calibration process has been successful. And, unless you have been very careful, no such assumption can be made.

I have been testing my thoughts about DSLR_RAW data sets for about two years, frustrated with inconsistent results. Including submissions from other DSLR astrophotographers, invariably, I have found that DSLR_RAW data improperly handled will always cause problems during post processing.

PixInsight preprocessing is excellent, but the user must be careful how it is applied to DSLR_RAW data. Certainly for beginners, it is terribly frustrating to see the same errors repeated over and over, where the solution is actually, not so difficult.
« Last Edit: 2015 June 11 23:21:17 by Rowland »

Offline dzso.bacsi

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #12 on: 2015 June 12 00:26:29 »
PixInsight preprocessing is excellent, but the user must be careful how it is applied to DSLR_RAW data. Certainly for beginners, it is terribly frustrating to see the same errors repeated over and over, where the solution is actually, not so difficult.

Would it be too much to ask for details about the nature and details of these frustrating and repeated errors and the "actually not so difficult solution"?
I continuously try to learn PI pre- and post-processing and for a DSLR user like me (very beginner) I am sure it would be very useful.
THX

astropixel

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #13 on: 2015 June 12 02:21:35 »
PM on the way.

Offline NGC7789

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Re: Dismantling the "Color Destruction" Myth
« Reply #14 on: 2015 June 12 07:21:38 »
PM on the way.

Why a PM? Can't the answer be posted right here in this thread?