Author Topic: TV  (Read 6532 times)

Offline vicent_peris

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Padawan
  • ****
  • Posts: 988
    • http://www.astrofoto.es/
TV
« on: 2010 March 24 06:30:08 »
Hi there,

this is somewhat off-topic... I'm going to buy a new TV, and was wondering if it would be usable for image processing if I connect my laptop. There are two main advantages, I think: the higher contrast ratios of TV vs computer screens, and the longer distance eye-tv (1.8 meter for full HD and 46" screen).

What do you think???

Vicent.

Offline mmirot

  • PixInsight Padawan
  • ****
  • Posts: 881
Re: TV
« Reply #1 on: 2010 March 24 06:44:12 »
I tried it with my LCD TV but was not that happy with the results.
I would be fine for browsing but not for final image processing.
No way to calibrate the screen.

Max

Offline Nocturnal

  • PixInsight Jedi Council Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2727
    • http://www.carpephoton.com
Re: TV
« Reply #2 on: 2010 March 24 06:48:34 »
Assuming you're talking about using an LCD or Plasma of some sort then calibration is as easy as a 'regular' monitor. In fact there's no difference between a computer monitor and a TV screen. Most are 1080p capable these days and have DVI or HDMI interfaces. I'm not sure if TV monitors still have higher contrast than computer monitors. Used to be that way with CRTs but times have changed. Luckily contrast ratios are now published for most TVs and monitors.

I have a Vizio 47" LED backlit TV. It does pretty well for displaying computer content. I find my rather average ASUS monitor to provide more pleasant images for processing though.
Best,

    Sander
---
Edge HD 1100
QHY-8 for imaging, IMG0H mono for guiding, video cameras for occulations
ASI224, QHY5L-IIc
HyperStar3
WO-M110ED+FR-III/TRF-2008
Takahashi EM-400
PIxInsight, DeepSkyStacker, PHD, Nebulosity

Offline Niall Saunders

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Jedi Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
  • We have cookies? Where ?
Re: TV
« Reply #3 on: 2010 March 24 07:10:03 »
Hi Vincent,

Whilst I am not using a 'TV' screen as such, I am using a 28" widescreen (dedicated) PC monitor, and can share the following experiences with you :-

1.) If you are 'too close' (i.e. 'normal' PC-monitor viewing distance) then you will find that the edges of the screen (all sides) tend to be beyond your peripheral vision area - I found that I had to get used to moving my head around to see everything. And it is worse if you wear glasses. And it will be even more of a problem if you move from 28" to 46" !!

2.) You have to consider the 'resolution' that the TV will give you in PC mode. My monitor gives me 1920x1200 pixels maximum. A 46" TV might not give anything like that - after all, '1080p' only requires '1080' vertical pixels, so may only give around 1600 pixels in width.

3.) You also have to be sure that illumination will be even - especially if the unit will be used for image processing. The internet reviews for my Hanns.G monitor suggested that I would see poor illumination at the top and bottom of the screen. However that has NOT been the case (unless I am sitting 'too close')

4.) Remember that, if you are going to have to 'sit back' from the monitor, you lose the advantages of huge 'screen real-estate', because everything might then become too small to see in the first place. So, having to sit 'further' back from a 46" screen with 'fewer' pixels in the first place may actually defeat the purpose of having it.

5.) There is a huge school of thought that you might be better off using 'multiple monitors', rather than one large one. I did quite a lot of internet Googling on this subject a few months back, and it is the way forward that I will consider when I next upgrade. My plan would be to retain my 28" 1920x1200 'landscape' monitor as a central screen. Then I would add two 'portrait' screens on either side - the intention being to achieve something like 900x1200 resolution (i.e. the 'same', or 'similar' vertical resolution) whilst also maintaining the same 'physical' scale in the vertical axis. But, you need a pair of monitors that will work in 'portrait' mode, and it takes a little bit of 'getting used to' (mouse pointers going missing, etc. !!). And you will need a second video card (preferably), and one that will drive the two new monitors independently of the central screen. And, it will take the new release of PI to allow you full advantage of this type of arrangement.

6.) Multiple monitors are also more conducive to running multiple applications - as each app tends to be given its own monitor to 'live in', and can be 'maximised' to fit that monitor. I find that I just CANNOT work any 'windows' OS environment with a whole load of applications cascaded or tiled all over them. It is not a 'natural' working environment for me, it does NOT represent my desktop (well, it DOES, sometimes :cheesy:). I use multiple monitors in the observatory at home, and here at work - and it is MUCH easier for the brain to understand ('mail' on this screen, 'word processor' on that screen; or 'image acquisition' on this screen and 'guiding' on that screen, etc.)


Of course, your experience may well be different - and perhaps only a real test will give you the answers.

Perhaps we will hear from others, who ARE actually using a large screen TV in place of a PC monitor, or who ARE using a multiple-monitor setup at home. In any case, it will hopefully be an interesting discussion.

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC

Offline Jack Harvey

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Padawan
  • ****
  • Posts: 975
    • PegasusAstronomy.com & Starshadows.com
Re: TV
« Reply #4 on: 2010 March 24 08:45:37 »
Vicent  You have way too much work to be done to have time for TV!
Jack Harvey, PTeam Member
Team Leader, SSRO/PROMPT Imaging Team, CTIO

Offline Niall Saunders

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Jedi Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
  • We have cookies? Where ?
Re: TV
« Reply #5 on: 2010 April 07 11:29:30 »
Hi again Vincent,

I just thought I would update you (assuming that you have not already made a decision).

Yesterday I had a call from a colleague who has seen the quality of my Hanns.G 28" monitor, and decided to take the plunge and buy two for himself (one for the office, one for home). When I called my supplier for a current price, it seems that (as with all high-tech equipment) the specification has gone UP (the model now includes a TV tuner and remote control, as well as multiple HDMI ports, and a SCART input) and the price has come DOWN (now 10% cheaper than it was when I purchased mine some fifteen months or so ago).

With PixInsight v1.6 just about ready for full release (I will be trying the 'beta' in more detail later on tonight - unless the skies remain clear  ::)) I may well be ready to look at a dual monitor setup all over again - my poor bank balance  :'(

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC

Offline Gord

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 1
Re: TV
« Reply #6 on: 2010 April 15 07:47:10 »
Hi  Vicent,
I use a 32 Sharp Aquos Gaming monitor/TV and find it great for processing images. As long as you get something capable of 1080p and 120 Hz or better refresh rate (1920/1080) then you should be fine. Also make sure your laptop has an HDMI or DVI output, if it only has a 15pin RGB port you may run into problems getting proper resolution as an RGB port will not support 1080HD output. 

Gord

Offline Niall Saunders

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Jedi Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
  • We have cookies? Where ?
Re: TV
« Reply #7 on: 2010 April 15 10:36:24 »
An update Vincent - I have just ordered two 18" Hanns.G monitors to be used in 'portrait' mode on each side of my 'main' 28" unit. I also ordered a second NVidia graphics card to drive them.

I'll let you know how I get on once they arrive.

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC

Offline Niall Saunders

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Jedi Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
  • We have cookies? Where ?
Re: TV
« Reply #8 on: 2010 April 16 13:50:14 »
Well, the three monitors are in place - I am having the 'chameleon eyes' operation performed tomorrow, so that my eyes are moved around to the side of my head, with independent swivel, pan and tilt.

That should help me see the whole (3456 x 1368) screen real estate ;D

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC

Offline Niall Saunders

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Jedi Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
  • We have cookies? Where ?
Re: TV
« Reply #9 on: 2010 April 20 04:13:06 »
Well, I have now spent a long weekend with the new multi-monitor setup and, by and large, the experience has been 'positive'.

Working the two 'side monitors' in 'portrait mode' takes a LOT of getting used to - especially as the 'horizontal' resolution is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than most of us are probably used to by now (the two 'portrait' monitors are running in 'native' 768h x 1366v mode - trying to match the existing vertical resolution of my 28", which is running in native 1920h x 1200v mode).

I also have a strange behaviour with one of the monitors, where the physical screen scaling does not match the other. I am using a brand new nVidia card, but this has three different outputs (HDMI, DVI and VGA) so I am wondering whether I simply cannot get the DVI and VGA outputs to 'match' - I'll spend some more time 'figuring out' the symptoms, then I'll drop nVidia an email.

One thing - it helps to ramp up the 'acceleration factor' for your mouse, and to make the pointer as big as you can tolerate. It is VERY easy to 'lose' your little beastie altogether, only to find just the tip of it's lttle nose peeking out the corner of a screen somewhere. Perhaps I need to write a 'cheese.exe' application that will tempt him out of hiding at the press of a hotkey (or BOTH mouse keys simultaneously)  ::)

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC