Author Topic: Banding caused by registration  (Read 671 times)

Offline rdryfoos

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Banding caused by registration
« on: 2019 November 08 04:14:18 »
I discovered that bands appear in te subs upon registration.  The bands are not present in raw or calibrated subs--but they appear after I use star alignment--also, the brightness of the subs changed--its a very strange thing that I can't figure out.  Why would registration change signal strength and create bands? They are dark bands that are vertically aligned.

Rodd

Offline rdryfoos

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #1 on: 2019 November 08 04:18:45 »
Its actually a checkerboard pattern--vertical bands and horizontal bands that ARE NOT present until I register the subs.  Then, it can be seen on individual subs.  The bands are not on the master sub used for regstration

Offline rdryfoos

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #2 on: 2019 November 08 04:25:08 »
I cant upload a sub because of the 500kb limit--really not very helpful.  The limit is not a good idea as I have said before

Offline John_Gill

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #3 on: 2019 November 08 04:41:18 »
Hi,

You could try the Script ---> Utilities ---> CanonBandingReduction

space is not black
John
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Offline rdryfoos

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #4 on: 2019 November 09 07:24:41 »
Hi,

You could try the Script ---> Utilities ---> CanonBandingReduction

space is not black
John
It does not wok--besides, that is beside the point.  Why is star aalignment causing banding in my subs

Offline rdryfoos

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #5 on: 2019 November 09 09:29:26 »
Hi,

You could try the Script ---> Utilities ---> CanonBandingReduction

space is not black
John
Here is an example--a crop from the sub, overstretched.  the banding shows up in final image.  It is NOT present in calibrated subs

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #6 on: 2019 November 09 10:15:20 »
Hi Rodd,

These artifacts are being caused by interpolation aliasing, and are a variant of moiré pattern. This happens because the images have a considerable amount of noise and the registration transformations have to apply small rotations. See my article about interpolation algorithms (old document, but the information given is still valid). If you prefer a quick read, you can jump directly to the Rotation Examples section.

As you can see in the comparison, Lanczos interpolation generates minimal aliasing artifacts compared to the rest of algorithms. That's why it is the default interpolation in StarAlignment. Nearest neighbor interpolation generates no artifacts by preserving the original noise distribution, but it lacks subpixel registration accuracy, which is a serious problem unless you work with oversampled data (and even in such case, subpixel registration is always desirable IMO).

The best ways to prevent (or nullify) these problems are:

- Acquire more signal. With less noise aliasing problems can be much less severe.

- Acquire many images with good dithering. By integrating a large set of dithered images, aliasing artifacts tend to cancel out.

- Use drizzle integration to generate your final integrated image (drizzle x2 if you work with undersampled data; x1 if the data are well sampled or oversampled). Since drizzle does not apply any interpolation, there are absolutely no aliasing problems.

I hope this helps you to understand the problem, and hence to potentially solve it.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline rdryfoos

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #7 on: 2019 November 10 04:26:22 »
Hi Rodd,

These artifacts are being caused by interpolation aliasing, and are a variant of moiré pattern. This happens because the images have a considerable amount of noise and the registration transformations have to apply small rotations. See my article about interpolation algorithms (old document, but the information given is still valid). If you prefer a quick read, you can jump directly to the Rotation Examples section.

As you can see in the comparison, Lanczos interpolation generates minimal aliasing artifacts compared to the rest of algorithms. That's why it is the default interpolation in StarAlignment. Nearest neighbor interpolation generates no artifacts by preserving the original noise distribution, but it lacks subpixel registration accuracy, which is a serious problem unless you work with oversampled data (and even in such case, subpixel registration is always desirable IMO).

The best ways to prevent (or nullify) these problems are:

- Acquire more signal. With less noise aliasing problems can be much less severe.

- Acquire many images with good dithering. By integrating a large set of dithered images, aliasing artifacts tend to cancel out.

- Use drizzle integration to generate your final integrated image (drizzle x2 if you work with undersampled data; x1 if the data are well sampled or oversampled). Since drizzle does not apply any interpolation, there are absolutely no aliasing problems.

I hope this helps you to understand the problem, and hence to potentially solve it.
Thanks Juan--but it just seems odd that it has never happened to me before--and now it is fairly regular.  I use lancos-3.  When there is a sudden change bin a system, it usually means something has changed.  Is it possible that the elctobics in the camera (any camera) could be cuasing noise, or in some way interferring with signal?
Rodd

Offline pfile

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Re: Banding caused by registration
« Reply #8 on: 2019 November 10 11:30:33 »
whenever this happened to me it was because i was shooting narrowband thru a very narrow filter and there was almost no signal in the background. consequently the dark signal in the light dominates the background and subtracting a master dark inevitably led to negative-valued pixels in the calibrated frame (which get clamped to 0 by ImageCalibration). in my case adding an output pedestal solved this problem, but YMMV.

you can check this by running the pixelmath iif($T==0, 1,0) on some of your calibrated subs and see if there are a bunch of white pixels in the result.

rob