Author Topic: My Basic Calibration Routine  (Read 3612 times)

Offline sreilly

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My Basic Calibration Routine
« on: 2017 August 08 07:16:49 »
For years I have always taken dark and light images at temperatures at seasonal ranges in 5 degree increments such as -30, -25, -20, and so on. I typically take light frames in 15 minute exposures for LRGB and 30 minute for Ha, O3, and S2 so the darks are timed accordingly. On occasion, depending on the object such as the Orion Nebula (M42), I might take a series of 2, 5, and 10 minute images to assemble a HDR image but I'll also take matching dark frames to use. I create a library of master darks that usually last the season and reuse accordingly. I'll take massive amounts of bias frames at those same temperatures as I was advised years ago that my camera (STL-11002M) does better with matching temperature bias frames and that seemed reasonable to me and easy enough to take in bad weather or even in the day as my observatory is very dark when closed. Flat frames are acquired using a FlatmanXL panel mounted on my southern wall directly in front of my parked scope and its brightness levels are controlled by software by settings I determined from experimenting. I take dark frames with a minimum of 2 seconds exposure to avoid shutter influence although I admit I've never seen this problem, better to be safe and no harm. Due to using a rotator on my system and the camera not being absolutely centered to the optics I take a series of flats at my required PA, say 90 degrees, and then rotated 180 degrees from there (270) to accommodate E/W exposures. I take a series of 16 flats, 8 each for E/W and create the masters. I usually take anywhere from 50-200 bias frames and darks a minimum of 20 but sometimes as many as 100 if in a stretch of bad weather. Hard drive space is very cheap these days so why not. So now we have what and how I take calibration frames, on to how I use them.

I'm not sure if it's still posted on PI's website but there was a writeup about creating master frames that I follow to this day that listed the settings to use to create master bias, dark, and flats. Actually it is found here http://pixinsight.com/tutorials/master-frames/index.html. The only exception to the settings is I don't have "calibrate" checked under the bias and dark frame for some reason. I'll have to go back and see what difference there was for me. Most likely it's because I'm already using master frames.  Maybe I need to change this. So after creating the master frames I save them to a library for future use. I usually find the flats work for a very long time if I haven't changed anything in the image trane and the optics haven't been removed for say recoating and so on. Collimation on my RC stays good between mirror re-coatings so that isn't an issue and I don't change the optical path with reducers or barlows although if I did I'd take flats to deal with that.

The only time my bias frames are used is for flat frame calibration. Once they are calibrated I make the master flat, save to the library and continue to make master darks. In calibrating my light frames I use the appropriate master dark (temperature and exposure length)  and flat frame then combine using the proper method depending on how many aligned subs I'm combining. I reject images that have obvious issues or low S/N usually by visual inspection first (guiding/focus/cloud interference) and then look at the stats to further cull. I usually reject data that is above 2.5-3 arc seconds. I typically try for deep images taking 10-15 hours luminance and 5 hours each of RGB with 15 minute exposures. That usually gives me a good amount of data to work with. On narrowband I go with 30 minute exposures and usually 15-20 hours per filter. I use ACP Expert so this is automated and can be carried over several seasons if necessary. It may seem excessive but again, when it's automated you simply acquire and process. The target database is controlled by you and each target is given a priority level by you. It looks for the best time (closer to the Meridian) and then picks the target, takes the images (dependant on you time grouping, mine is set to 1 hour blocks) and takes the images, looks again for best target, and continues.

So the point of all this is to see if there are any improvements to my calibration procedures that I can make or flaws that need correcting. I have not used the SuperBias feature as of yet and may try that on my next set of bias frames, actually collecting them now.

Thanks for your time.

Steve
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline armyortho

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #1 on: 2017 August 09 08:08:10 »
You're taking 15 minute exposures at f5 not in narrowband?  How are you not completely saturating your image?  Is your site that dark?

Offline sreilly

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #2 on: 2017 August 09 08:14:54 »
Not sure where you got the f/5 at. This is an OGS 12.5" RC @f/9 and the LRGB images are 15 minutes while the NB are 30.

Steve
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline armyortho

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #3 on: 2017 August 09 08:30:46 »
Saw you had a Tak 106 in your signature block.

May apologies.

Offline sreilly

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #4 on: 2017 August 09 09:35:02 »
I seldom image with the Tak these days. Seems the coatings are very soft and somewhat degraded on mine. A friend has a TOA-150 with the same issue.
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline drmikevt

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #5 on: 2017 August 09 12:58:49 »
2 things:
 
 - Why so few flats?  Various people have debated how many calibration frames are needed and math tells us that the critical number in terms of noise vs wanting-to-take-as-frames-as possible is 22-24.  Lots of people just take 50 flats as a norm.  I think, with just 16, your flats would be adding noise unnecessarily (because they are noisy themselves).  Also - are you stacking your E and W flats together?  It is unclear from your description above.  If you rotate your camera than you can't do that.  If you don't rotate the camera on the flip then its fine, and it doesn't matter (or shouldn't) whether you take them on the E or W. 

 - SuperBias is not really meant for CCD chips.  It was designed for CMOS chips which behave differently.  If you have any partial column defects on your CCD, super bias will not handle this correctly and you will introduce error.  If your CCD is very clean, then you can use it if you want.  Personally I take 300 and the stack looks pretty nice.

That's all I got
Mike

Offline sreilly

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #6 on: 2017 August 09 13:28:22 »
1) I've "seen" no evidence that more flats work better although you can probably quote an equation that proves me wrong however when I was taking 32 flats, 16 E and 16 W, there was obvious difference. And if you're taking sky flats that becomes even harder to get massive numbers of flats if you're using a large format camera.

2) There would be no point in combining the flats from E/W due to the optics not being centered as stated. One of the things I noticed early on after getting the rotator was that not all software reports side of mount the same. One uses where the telescope is pointing while another indicates the side the camera is on. The real test however was flat fielding the east side with a west side flat and looking at the result.

I hadn't really paid much attention to the superbias before as I didn't see the need but after a while thought maybe I should investigate. The only use for bias frames I had seen before other than calibrating the flats was for dark frame scaling and I don't do that. Tried years ago and it didn't seem near as clean as using master made of the same timed as exposures.

Steve
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline drmikevt

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #7 on: 2017 August 09 14:45:41 »
Yes, there are equations, but who cares if you like what you see? And I get your point about sky flats. 

I should point out that (although not to you, but to folks in general who might read this) that the '22-24 is optimal' thing only applies to calibration frames where building signal is not the goal.  It is the point at which, from a pure noise perspective, there is little to gained by going further - not nothing, but little.  Bias is the exception because there you are trying to build a characterization of the base signal of the chip.   - at least, that's how I currently understand things to be.

Mike

Offline Robert Q. Kimball

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #8 on: 2017 August 09 15:19:46 »
I suggest you watch this video on YouTube.  It is Excellent!

https://youtu.be/zU5jJgjKuQQ

Also, I may be the only one that does this, but I take "image_darks" and "flat_darks".  I have been happy with the results.

Offline RickS

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #9 on: 2017 August 10 00:11:48 »
Various people have debated how many calibration frames are needed and math tells us that the critical number in terms of noise vs wanting-to-take-as-frames-as possible is 22-24.

Internet forums might tell us that there is some magic number but math won't  :D

What you care about is the SNR of the master flat and, since flats have enough signal that read noise can be ignored, this SNR will only depend on how much signal you collect.  If you have a camera with high well depth you won't need many flats.  If you have a camera with shallow wells then you will need a lot more.

I target half a million electrons for a master flat.  That gives a SNR of more than 700 which is overkill (500000/sqrt(500000) =~ 707.)  My camera has a well depth of more than 80K e-.  I take flats around 35K ADU, so that's at least 40K e- per flat.  12 flats gets me close enough.  If I had a camera with well depth of 20K e- then I'd need four times as many flats.

Cheers,
Rick.

Offline sreilly

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #10 on: 2017 August 10 05:53:05 »
Thanks Rick,

I used to take 32 flats, 16 for each side of pier but saw no physical difference. I'm not sure why I went to 16 unless it was a time thing. I always try taking flats and bias frames at the same temperature if possible, bias definitely. The STL-11002M camera has a full well depth of 50K-e. While the panel flats work well I prefer sky flats like I use to take with my ST10-XME but I found it very difficult to get sky flats because of the 26 second download times. Using ACP to automate the process I could never dial in the settings to keep up with the sky brightness. The panel gives a great flat surface which I can control by software to maintain a minimum exposure for each filter.

Steve
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline RickS

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Re: My Basic Calibration Routine
« Reply #11 on: 2017 August 11 00:46:05 »
Steve,

I like sky flats too.  I can get 6 of each filter using ACP in a single dusk or dawn run, so two runs is my target but one run is good enough (SNR of 500 with a quarter of a million electrons.)

Cheers,
Rick.