PixInsight Forum

PixInsight => Image Processing Challenges => Topic started by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 08 23:02:44

Title: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 08 23:02:44
Hello there!
This is the first time that I am trying to use this software and I need help because I am a newby in astrofotography!

Here find a RAW image captured by me, can you teach me how to remove the red gradient and how to create the corrected final image?

https://copy.com/giz6SathUZbaWunf/IMG_39673_6d.CR2 (https://copy.com/giz6SathUZbaWunf/IMG_39673_6d.CR2)

Normally I use Canon Digital Photo Professional 4 to set up my images and the best I could do for this RAW is the following:

http://img910.imageshack.us/img910/9956/rEe3KG.jpg (http://img910.imageshack.us/img910/9956/rEe3KG.jpg)

How can you elaborate correctly single exposure images in order to let out beautiful pictures of deep sky?

I know that the best way is to capture many images of the same subject (10-20-30), but this is only my first try in order to understand how the Canon EOS 6D performs.

Many thanks for your help.
Filippo
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TobiasLindemann on 2015 March 10 04:00:54
Hi Filippo,
what you have to do is not explained in three sentences, but can you find many tutorials of PI in the internet. On youtube you can find many videos. Maybe the video of Jason Brown are for your needs:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNZ7clc6JYOq4k88te_cWTw/videos

I had a quick try on your picture and below you see what I get. Surely it is not the best, what you can get with PI, but IMO much better than what the Canon tool does.
Greetings Tobias
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 10 06:41:05
Hi Filippo,
what you have to do is not explained in three sentences, but can you find many tutorials of PI in the internet. On youtube you can find many videos. Maybe the video of Jason Brown are for your needs:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNZ7clc6JYOq4k88te_cWTw/videos

I had a quick try on your picture and below you see what I get. Surely it is not the best, what you can get with PI, but IMO much better than what the Canon tool does.
Greetings Tobias

Many thanks for your help Tobias!
The image now is much better!  8)

I tried another time with Canon Digital Photo Professional 4 and this is the result:

http://img673.imageshack.us/img673/7338/R30Ey7.jpg (http://img673.imageshack.us/img673/7338/R30Ey7.jpg)

I will have to learn to use PixInsight, but it is not an easy thing!  :sealed:
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: jkmorse on 2015 March 10 10:27:38
Filippo,

If you are interested, I have a cribsheet (about 50 pages long) that I share with others and they seem to find it helpful in understanding how to use PI.  If you are interested, please feel free to drop me an email at jkmorse57@gmail.com and I will happily send you a copy.

Best,

Jim
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: Zocky on 2015 March 10 16:28:39
Hi Filippo!
Here is one more try, maybe a little aggressive, but just to show you what do you have inside that data.
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: Zocky on 2015 March 10 16:33:31
Here is attached process container, so you can see and try what I was doing.
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: Geoff on 2015 March 10 16:51:09
Filippo, the video tutorials at Harry's Astroshed http://www.harrysastroshed.com/pixinsight/pixinsight%20video%20html/Pixinsighthome.html will get you a long way into PixInsight.  I highly recommend them.
Geoff
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 10 23:12:53
Thank you all for the suggestions!
 :D
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: georg.viehoever on 2015 March 11 03:53:50
Filippo,

nice result for a single shot. You can even see the horsehead nebula...

You will also need to work on your observational techniques. Your CR2 image shows clear signs of vignetting - you will need to use flats, bias and dark images to adjust for problems like these. Using DBE to fix this is only the second best solution. Using HDR techniques will also allow you to see more of M42s core that currently is overexposed.

Georg
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 17 02:54:48
Hello to everyone!
A dear friend of mine (SunBlack) kindly create this final image using 15 shots taken by me!

(http://img661.imageshack.us/img661/2262/vIH8XN.jpg)

Hi-RES: http://img673.imageshack.us/img673/1042/JkRv6S.jpg (http://img673.imageshack.us/img673/1042/JkRv6S.jpg)

300mm focal length with SkyWatcher Star Adventurer (no telescope guide) + Omegon Pro Alu Tripod 8kg.
Software list: DSS, paint shop X, Pixinsight, photoshop cs2.

All exposures taken at 3200 ISO, f/5,6-f/7.1, from 30 to 240 seconds, total 2100 seconds. No DARKS no FLATS.

Can I obtain the same final result by only using PixInsight? Maybe I think so...  ;D
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: georg.viehoever on 2015 March 17 03:07:05
Yes, you probably can (actually, I already find Zocky's result from your single .CR2 better). You would need to provide your RAW frames to the forum to trigger a competition  ;)

Georg
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 17 08:03:52
Yes, you probably can (actually, I already find Zocky's result from your single .CR2 better). You would need to provide your RAW frames to the forum to trigger a competition  ;)

Georg

Ok, you can try!  :D
This is the public link with 15 RAW files taken in 18 febb 2015: https://copy.com/7msXhCYxP8wp7qJf/orion_19_02_15.zip (https://copy.com/7msXhCYxP8wp7qJf/orion_19_02_15.zip)

Please can you get out the total image with PixInsight and send me the final JPEG at 350dpi?
I am looking forward to see what it is possibile to do only using this software!  :o
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: oldwexi on 2015 March 17 17:19:45
Hi Filipo!
Find attached a version of your Orion, with the intent to
show also the background Details out of your 15 images. 100% made with PixInsight.
(http://www.werbeagentur.org/oldwexi/fotos/orion_TechnoPhil_gw.jpg)

Gerald

Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: msmythers on 2015 March 17 19:33:30
Gerald

I am just amazed in what you were able to reveal from this data.


Mike
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 18 00:01:29
Hi Filipo!
Find attached a version of your Orion, with the intent to
show also the background Details out of your 15 images. 100% made with PixInsight.

Gerald

That's great Gerald!  :surprised:
Please can you send me the final JPEG high res at 350dpi ? I really would like to keep it ... :D

Someone wants to do another elaboration test?  :D
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: dzso.bacsi on 2015 March 18 00:40:53
Hi Filipo!
Find attached a version of your Orion, with the intent to
show also the background Details out of your 15 images. 100% made with PixInsight.

Gerald

That's great Gerald!  :surprised:
Please can you send me the final JPEG high res at 350dpi ? I really would like to keep it ... :D

Someone wants to do another elaboration test?  :D

Hat off to you, Gerald!
Well, I would be much more interested in the PI workflow than the final jpg!
If I were the OP, it would be nice to know it in case there is going to be a second use of Pixinsight... ;)
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 18 00:45:14
Well, you are right @dzso.bacsi

We would like to have both the final JPEG in high res and the workflow in order to understand better how to use correctly PI!  :D
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: georg.viehoever on 2015 March 18 12:17:45
...
Find attached a version of your Orion, with the intent to
show also the background Details out of your 15 images. 100% made with PixInsight....

What an amazing result! Please share your techniques!

Georg
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: msmythers on 2015 March 18 13:34:43
Georg

I'm afraid if Gerald does share his methods, I'll have to go back and reprocess every image I've ever taken. Well the rainy season will be here soon.


Mike
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: oldwexi on 2015 March 18 14:22:13
Hi PI-friends!

Will try to produce a description of the many small steps i did with Filipos images.
But this will take some time to make it "readable". (the complete project file is 7GB large)

Basically the major part for the background details were to create deeper RangeMasks,  step
by step from the partly stretched image. This method works fine on images where only very weak
molecular clouds are in. RangeMask allows fine Background lightness variations to become visible.

Example of such an image:
http://www.werbeagentur.org/oldwexi/gallery.html#IC3104 (http://www.werbeagentur.org/oldwexi/gallery.html#IC3104)

Will come back.
Gerald
 
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: jkmorse on 2015 March 19 09:06:32
Gerald,

+1 on your technique.  And by the way, I am in full agreement with Mike.  Your insights are great!

Best,

Jim
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 21 10:48:12
Hello!
This is another example (12 RAW files) took 2 days ago, Pleiades:

https://copy.com/skhaIRfT8Bs0UAgS/pleiades_19_03_15.zip (https://copy.com/skhaIRfT8Bs0UAgS/pleiades_19_03_15.zip)

If someone wants to try...  :P
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: Zocky on 2015 March 21 15:56:40
Hi Filippo!

Here is yours M42. Since your files are not consistent in exposure times it is much harder to pull out faint details. I wasn't able to pull out such amount of dust as Gerald did.
In the integration process, I have discarded 4 worst files. If you like the result I can provide more details about processing.
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 22 10:40:53
Hi Filippo!

Here is yours M42. Since your files are not consistent in exposure times it is much harder to pull out faint details. I wasn't able to pull out such amount of dust as Gerald did.
In the integration process, I have discarded 4 worst files. If you like the result I can provide more details about processing.

Thank you Zocky for your try,
yes please provide me more details about processing if you can.

Can you also provide the same image at the highest resolution? I will try to remove the dust spots.
Next time I will take pictures at the same ISO, exposure time and aperture (at the central apertures all the lens performs better).

 ;)
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: Zocky on 2015 March 23 15:56:05
Filippo, attached you can find Process Icons. Please send me your email address and I`ll send you HIres file.
Processing in short:
-rotate, crop a little
-DBE to get rid of vignetting
-small amount of noise reduction, SCNR
-histogram transformation in few small steps with mask to protect the nebula
-HDRMT
-extract L from RGB
-boost color on RGB
-enhance L
-LRGB Combine
-final tweaking

I hope this will be of use to you.   
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 23 23:48:46
Filippo, attached you can find Process Icons. Please send me your email address and I`ll send you HIres file.
Processing in short:
-rotate, crop a little
-DBE to get rid of vignetting
-small amount of noise reduction, SCNR
-histogram transformation in few small steps with mask to protect the nebula
-HDRMT
-extract L from RGB
-boost color on RGB
-enhance L
-LRGB Combine
-final tweaking

I hope this will be of use to you.

That's great Zocky  :P
I sent in PVT my email address!

Regards.
Filippo
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: georg.viehoever on 2015 March 24 15:05:05
Hi Fillipo,

here is my try with your data. The process is explained below. I did not manage to get the fine detail that Gerald's version showed, but in my opinion I have nicer nebula, in particular the core of M42, Horsehead and Flame nebula. For me, the ideal image would use Gerald's Version for the background, and mine for foreground.

Let me know where I can upload the full Image (424 MB) for you.

Georg

Process with some comments:

- you dont need so many different exposure times. Use only 240secs and 30 secs in future. The 30 secs are necessary to resolve the core of M42
- You need flats, darks and bias for proper calibration. Much of the difficulty of processing your data comes from the missing calibration.
- screen images using Blink process. I chose to keep all images, although the ..63 image seems to have tracking issues. But we want to see faint details and in doubt sacrifice some crispness, so we keep all the data. The satellite tracks seen in the images will disappear during integration.
- register images with ImageRegistration. Default settings except: Use one of the 30 second images as reference (hoping that it has well defined stars), Registration model=2d splines, Distortion correction selected (hoping to adjust for lens distortions). Note that your raw images show clear coma, which is probably much stronger than the lens distortions...
- Integrate images with ImageIntegration. Default settings except: Generate 64 bit result selected  (due to high dynamic range), Weights= Exposure time, Rejection Algorithm=WinsorizedSigmaClipping, SigmaHigh=SigmaLow=4.0. This weights the images according to their relative strength (=exposure time), and rejects the satellite trail (or so I thought. It is visible in the final image, so I would need to do stronger rejection...)
- Integrate the two 30 second images with PixelMath (Cannot do it with ImageIntegration because only 2 images). RescaleResult, Use 64bit working image, Target Sample Format=64 bit.
- On Full integration:
   - Correct for Vignetting with DynamicBackgroundExtraction. Using defaults except Tolerance=5 (due to strong gradient), Correction=Division (because it is the right mode to correct vignetting, not sky gradient). Placing samples automatically, then moving them carefully to avoid any nebulosity or stars (needs a lot of care). Note that this is only a bad replacement for proper calibration, and of course it can not fix the dust particles on your images.
   - do second DBE with same settings. Slightly improves it.
   - BackgroundNeutralization with defaults
   - ColorCalibration with defaults
- On integrated 30 second images:
   - same actions as on full integration
- Save both images, then combine with HDRComposition. Default settrings, Binarization Threshold=0.2. This restores the core of M42 as much as possible.
- SCDNR with default settings to get rid of green noise
- Dynamic crop to useful part of image
- Delinearize with sequence of relatively mild HistogramTransforms
- HDRMultiscaleTransform with defaults, to bring out the core of M42
- Denoise with TGVDenoise, defaults except Lightness: Strength=50, EdgeProtection=0.001,Iterations=500, Chrominance: Strength=70
- ColorSaturation to push red
- Final Tweaks with CurvesTransform (RGB, Saturation)


Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 24 16:54:26
Hi Fillipo,

here is my try with your data. The process is explained below. I did not manage to get the fine detail that Gerald's version showed, but in my opinion I have nicer nebula, in particular the core of M42, Horsehead and Flame nebula. For me, the ideal image would use Gerald's Version for the background, and mine for foreground.

Let me know where I can upload the full Image (424 MB) for you.

Georg


Please can you use DropBox or Copy in order to share your big image file?

Thank you all for the help giving to me & many thanks to you Mr. Georg!
Next time I will try to follow all of your suggestions!
Anyway I see that PixInsight performs very very well!  ;D
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: georg.viehoever on 2015 March 25 11:53:16
Here is the link to the XISF file: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C56E60845CFA6790!402&authkey=!AKNEbEUQFcg320U&ithint=file%2cxisf
Georg
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: NKV on 2015 March 26 02:22:06
Hi,
I shoot similar image area!!!  :)

(http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11848.0;attach=708309;image) (http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11848.0;attach=708308;image)

FSQ106/385mm Canon 1Dx ISO800 170x30s
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 26 04:44:37
Hi,
I shoot similar image area!!!  :)

(http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11848.0;attach=708309;image) (http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11848.0;attach=708308;image)

FSQ106/385mm Canon 1Dx ISO800 170x30s

This is a professional image!  ;)
May I see one single shoot? I thought that 30seconds of exposure was too short time!?

Please try to process my images if you can!  :P
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: georg.viehoever on 2015 March 26 11:21:33
...May I see one single shoot? I thought that 30seconds of exposure was too short time!?...
Please note that this is 170 shots of 30 seconds each...
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 26 11:25:56
...May I see one single shoot? I thought that 30seconds of exposure was too short time!?...
Please note that this is 170 shots of 30 seconds each...

I know... but I usually shoot not less than 120 seconds...  :-[

Less seconds more shoots... more seconds less shoots... I am right?!  :surprised:
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: georg.viehoever on 2015 March 26 13:10:28
...Less seconds more shoots... more seconds less shoots... I am right?!  :surprised:
You should read some literature on image stacking. It explains the different trade-offs. Lots of material available online. If you prefer paper, my recommendation is http://www.willbell.com/aip/index.htm .

Georg
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: Zocky on 2015 March 26 14:39:20
I know... but I usually shoot not less than 120 seconds...  :-[

Less seconds more shoots... more seconds less shoots... I am right?!  :surprised:
I don`t know which scope did you use, but take note that NKV used FSQ scope at f3,6. It`s not the same if you shoot 30 sec. at f3,6 or at f 6 (or higher).
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 March 27 01:08:17
I know... but I usually shoot not less than 120 seconds...  :-[

Less seconds more shoots... more seconds less shoots... I am right?!  :surprised:
I don`t know which scope did you use, but take note that NKV used FSQ scope at f3,6. It`s not the same if you shoot 30 sec. at f3,6 or at f 6 (or higher).

This is the base of photography!
Got it!
Title: Re: (IMAGE SAMPLES) First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TechnoPhil on 2015 April 16 06:10:12
Hello all!
Another test if you want to try!

https://copy.com/L4ae70R4cROemY4g/m101_galassia_girandola.zip

This is M101 at 300mm - f/6.3 - ISO 1600 - EOS 6D + 28-300 L and this time I also took DARK, BIAS and FLAT calibration frames as you suggested me!

 ;)
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: TimoS on 2015 April 16 11:03:18
Here is attached process container, so you can see and try what I was doing.

Hi

I a beginner also and have couple raw images (M42). I have now pretty good polaraligment. It gives me about 1min exposure with 2000 mm focal length with round stars, without auto guider, which I have. So next step is to take many lights and calibration frames and learn to work with them.

At the moment skies are cloudy(Southern Finland) so I would like to try to work with those single lights (C8"EHD, Canon60Da,30sM42Raw, 0,7,reducer, cls-filter). How can I use that process container linked in message before? I have latest PI.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxNJYrEYTjt3aDFhZW9xRFVyZms/view?usp=sharing

Is it possible that someone might work with one of my lights? In think there is much more there than I can found with cannon software. At this point PI is new to me so almost everything I try makes it worse :) There is a smaller version attached of M42.

I am also a big fan of moon. Is PI useful to work with moon, planets or sun? If it is, where could I find information how to use PI with these objects?

Br, Timo
Title: Re: First use of PixInsight: help!
Post by: Zocky on 2015 April 16 12:07:43
How can I use that process container linked in message before? I have latest PI.
You can use it only with TechnoPhil`s files, because that container is a process history for TecnoPhil`s image. If you try to use it with your files, you won`t get a good result.
You can put your files on one of the file sharing services, and when I`ll find some time I will take a look.