PixInsight Forum

PixInsight => General => Topic started by: Warhen on 2013 August 10 11:53:13

Title: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Warhen on 2013 August 10 11:53:13
Dear PTeam and list members,
                                             At the risk of coming off like an internet bully, I'd like to make a request for your consideration. If the moderators disagree, or feel this post inappropriate, please feel free to move, or remove it. There is a brand-new PixInsight group at Yahoo Tech Groups. I'd like to see us NOT support it. Here are my reasons.

While it may seem like a good thing to have as many vehicles as possible to disseminate information on PixInsight, I have found poor and some downright incorrect documentation of PixInsight in Cloudy Nights posts, YouTube videos, etc. It's like that game called 'Telephone' where you whisper something around a table to see how distorted it gets when it reaches the last person. That's what the internet does- spreads as much disinformation, as it does information.

Juan, the PTeam, and advanced members of this list work hard to provide the most accurate information here, in this forum and community. It is IMHO, the official resource for all things PixInsight, and should remain so. Let's help keep it so!

In the interest of full disclosure, some of us work very hard to help spread the 'gospel'. In my case, I endeavor to do this commercially. I have the utmost respect and thanks to Harry and others for helping to unlock the treasure chest. I have the utmost disrespect for the minions of folks who feel compelled to mimic what they learn from others, usually without credit, and all too often incorrectly. While this is not my primary motivation for suggesting this 'boycott', I wanted to be totally transparent.

Thanks for this platform!
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: vpcirc on 2013 August 10 14:53:34
I agree! This program is hard enough to learn. I have to admit I have been mislead and doing a process incorrectly until I got on this forum and learned correctly.
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Josh Lake on 2013 August 10 17:47:32
I agree with the sentiment, W, and think that this very forum should be the go-to place for the best PI information. Your tutorials, Harry's screencasts, and Vicent's work on YouTube all led me down the good path in using this program.

I'm not familiar with the deep goings on at CN or the other forums -- what kind of information is being spread? Do you have any examples? Is it matters of opinion or actual wrong information about the PI processes? I'd almost prefer to have some of the PI experts among us go out and offer corrections.
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Geoff on 2013 August 11 00:09:24
In my opinion there seem to be two main groups of people who denigrate PixIsight. The main one consists of people in their comfort zone with their favorite image processing package and who don't want to move out of it. It's much easier to say that something is rubbish than to admit to being too lazy to learn something new. There other, and smaller, group are those who have some commercial interest in other IP packages.
Geoff
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: vpcirc on 2013 August 11 04:39:36
Then of course there are the pirates who think all software and programs online should be free. They steal whatever has been hacked. People complain about the cost of Maxim DL, but the amount of hacked versions out there cause us honest people a much higher price. No different than shoplifters.
Title: Warren, really???
Post by: Greeps on 2013 August 11 06:27:35
Wow!

My name is David and I started the Yahoo group PixInsight. I don't know Warren from Adam.  I've never used IP4AP.

I am retired.  I am comfortable with Photoshop but in all honesty, PixInsight is a better program for image processing so I am just starting the learning curve.  I have no financial axes to grind, no beefs with anyone, and absolutely no one should feel intimidated in the Yahoo group, because no one knows less than I do.

This thread seems to have turned toward the subjects of misinformation, piracy, and a perception of lack of crediting learning sources. The Yahoo PixInsight group started a couple of days ago.  There's precious little content on it yet.  As such, there's no misinformation.  There's no piracy.  No one has stiffed anyone on credits.

Boycott if you feel that's the best path for you.  If you do join, you'll be welcomed. I hope we can keep it about PixInsight, though, and leave the other baggage behind.

I run another Yahoo group, Astronomy Hacks.  That group is responsible for several articles in Astronomy Technology Today.  Perhaps a visit to that group would ease people's minds.

All the best,
David


Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: kolec on 2013 August 11 10:34:30
Hi

I Think , that W. is make promoting  for CN forum , when he start this discusion.

kolec

Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: dgbarar on 2013 August 11 12:52:03
Warren,

Suggesting a boycott of any kind is bad form and bad for business.  What if people began to suggest that they boycott your fee-based tutorials because similar information can be obtained free in other avenues?

Personally, I think there is room for another Pixinsight forum.  The Software Bisque forum seems to coexist with Yahoo Groups.  If the PI developers and others choose to participate in a different forum it is their decision and not for a third party to attempt to control the thought of others.  Mao said it best.  "Let one hundred flowers bloom.  Let one thousand schools of thought contend".

Don Barar
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Warhen on 2013 August 11 16:31:16
Hi everyone,
                   Don, you may well be right. Regardless of my feeling that PixInsight and its community of users would be better served by staying here exclusively, which I do, I realize you can't stop 'progress'. I was within my rights to suggest it however, and each individual is free to do what they choose. If you look at the original post, the word boycott is in quotes, which generally suggests a bit of sarcasm or tounge in cheekishness, and that's exactly how I meant it. 

And David, I'm glad you are here. I was/am going to write you personally. For the record here, and again, I believe I was clear in the original post, the word piracy was not used, nor were my comments in any way related to you David personally, or your group. It concerned the very first post by a member, and I've taken that up with that member privately.

Kolec, did I not attempt to help you on CN last week? In what way am I promoting CN by stating something quite the opposite in my original post? These are rhetorical questions only and not the stuff of public discussion on the PI forum.

In closing, anyone who knows me knows that I am a passionate person- passionate about art, imaging, and accurate information. And yes, I am passionate about PixInsight. I am predisposed to considering fellow imagers my brothers and I'm also passionate about teaching. I have a teacher's heart. The last thing I would ever want to do is alienate anyone. Go in peace, and thank you for your time!
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: jerryyyyy on 2013 August 11 17:35:30
For my two cents as an inexperienced user, CN is much more active than this forum.  There is considerable overlap of users, but the overlap is not 100%.  You can post questions here and wait days for an answer, though in general the answers are good/better and actually correct at times here.  Hoever, many experienced PI users on CNs do not ever seem to look here.  If I want a quick answer to a dumb question, CN is more responsive.  If I want the right answer to a complex mess, this is the place. 

I think the last thing we need is a third forum to diffuse responses even more. 
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: mads0100 on 2013 August 11 17:51:55
I agree, mostly because we already have a useful forum that provides the Q&A we need.  Yahoo! Groups is not the optimum tool and I think it takes us away from the developers.

Chris
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: kolec on 2013 August 11 22:46:11
Waren

I send You mail

kolec
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: pfile on 2013 August 12 11:09:54
i actually hate yahoo groups, the web interface is terrible and a couple of the groups i am subscribed to are dominated by a few blowhards. i end up having to use email digests to read the posts and that sucks.

that'd be why i don't want to see a PI yahoo group...

rob
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: troypiggo on 2013 August 12 13:42:14
I was disappointed to read this thread.  Warren, you articulated the reasons for your post very well in the OP and I understand what your points are.  But surely the spread of assistance to using PI is a good thing.

Perhaps David could consider, if not too put off by this thread, that if there's a post or question in the Y!G that's a bit beyond the experience there, seems a bit vague, or the response sounds just plain wrong, he could direct people here for a more experience user-base?  Let's work together.

If, like pfile, you don't like Y!G interface, don't use it.  Simple.
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Stu on 2013 August 12 20:20:31
There are many different outlets for astronomy outreach and education on the web.  My own personal preference is actually the Google Plus astrophotography community and both private and public hangouts as I am a volunteer astronomer through Universe Today's Virtual Star Parties and I am very comfortable with the interface.  I also do a lot on Y! Groups as I prefer getting a digest very day and scanning what is new.  I even use Twitter quite a bit.  For learning PI I use all of them, as well as Warren's video series.

More and wider promotion of the software will lead to more people using it. And more people using it can only mean better sales for both the PI team and Warren's educational efforts.
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: jerryyyyy on 2013 August 13 08:04:41
I am afraid there are a few Yahoo groups that I needed when I started out, like EQMOD/ASCOM, Maxim and CCDComander... but the interface is decades old... I have a thread in CCDComander on a flip problem that is continually lost to me whenever someone comments.  Regardless, not sure at all you need a Yahoo PI group. 
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Greeps on 2013 August 13 12:20:23
OK, guys, no more Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight.

Thanks to those who joined.  Thanks to those who gave me an honest opinion.

Lest anyone think there's ill feeling or I was pushed, badgered, or bullied into this, I wasn't.  I gave it some thought and I agree with those who think it is just not necessary.

All the best,
David
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Warhen on 2013 August 13 15:08:22
Hi all, I checked into the thread to see if there'd been new activity. I found myself somewhat agreeing with Troy's post, who had seconded Don's sentiment, before I saw yours David. I have mixed feelings. It's likely someone else will start one at Yahoo, and I'd much rather have a level headed, super nice guy such as you behind it than an unknown. While I still feel the idea was redundant, and possibly ground for posters to spread misinformation, I feel bad. Thank you very much for stating what you did concerning your decision. I understand we have at least one friend in common and I am impressed with you and hope we get to meet at some point.
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Stu on 2013 August 13 18:48:09
And I, for one, through this whole process, have made new virtual friends with Warren, David, and Harry. Ironically, it's brought me closer to the PI forum community and now that I have two actual posts to it, my posting activation energy has been overcome so I anticipate using it more.

Stuart
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Josh Lake on 2013 August 14 06:17:00
Easy solution? Make the group or reinstate it, then simply point all users to this forum... That way, those who tend to go to the Yahoo Group interface will find us.
Title: Re: New Yahoo Tech Group- PixInsight
Post by: Warhen on 2013 August 14 17:03:24
Here, here Stuart, happy to call you and David friends as well! Hope your vaca is going great.