Author Topic: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight  (Read 5058 times)

Offline wisetrout

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M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« on: 2016 June 07 11:46:12 »
Hi,

I am a beginning imager and currently practicing processing with the trial version of PixInsight.  I have attached two images processed from M31 challenge data from the web.  One is my best Photoshop version and the other my PixInsight version.  To my eye, the PixInsight image is much cleaner with little noise and good star control; however, I prefer the overall presentation of the galaxy in the Photoshop version.  I believe this is because the fringes of the galaxy are too clean with little feathering or dispersion in the PixInsight image.

I have tried various masking fuzzy and smoothing parameters, but cannot improve the PixInsight image in that regard.  Is there something I am missing in the PixInsight processing.  I would appreciate any input on how to improve the PixInsight image.

Thanks.

Offline Rob Friefeld

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Re: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« Reply #1 on: 2016 June 07 12:55:44 »
To me, the first image fits your description of the PixInsight result and the second your Photoshop description. Am I mixed up?

Offline wisetrout

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Re: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« Reply #2 on: 2016 June 07 13:02:06 »
The first image is the Photo Shop image.

Offline mmirot

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Re: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« Reply #3 on: 2016 June 08 15:01:25 »
Do a pass with HDR at five or six. Then tweek the curves especially saturation.


Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« Reply #4 on: 2016 June 09 02:13:21 »
The forum rules don't allow posting images processed with other applications here. However, we are not going to moderate this post because it can be useful mainly for one reason: We should realize that, in general, trying to improve things by comparing the results achieved with different applications is completely useless. This tends to be more true when one has little experience with at least one of the applications. And this is very true when the applications in question are based on completely different paradigms and design principles, as happens with Photoshop and PixInsight.

A "Photoshop vs PixInsight" comparison or challenge won't help you to improve your knowledge. Besides the important fact that this forum is not about Photoshop, showing an image, preferably with sufficient resolution and free from compression artifacts, and asking about the problems and mistakes in the image, is always much more efficient. It is difficult with the snapshots you've posted, but here are a few comments that I hope can help you:

- Excessive noise reduction: washed background, loss of contrast in the outer galaxy arms. Always avoid noise suppression. Noise is uncertainty in the data, hence it cannot be removed with certainty, by its very nature. We can only dissimulate it with carefully applied noise reduction techniques.

- Excessive and too selective color saturation (more in the PS version). Have you tried to increase color saturation on stars and other small-scale structures, with selective masking techniques?

- In the PixInsight version, color balance is quite correct on the galaxy, IMO. In the PS version there is a magenta cast, probably increased by excessive saturation.

- As is well known, the core of M31 poses a difficult high dynamic range problem. In the PS version, the core is very wrong IMO. Brightness has been reduced locally on the core, in an attempt to solve the HDR problem, but the attempt has been unsuccessful (lack of structure detail, lack of color, masking artifact). I don't know how the original data are, but we have many tools in PixInsight specifically designed to deal with these (and much, much harder) HDR problems. In your PixInsight version of the image, the core is much better IMO, simply because the HDR problem remains unsolved—which is a perfectly valid style decision.

- In the PS version, there are objectionable artifacts around stars. In the PixInsight version you have controlled them much better. Irrespective of this, perhaps you have gone too far trying to sharpen the image, although it's difficult to say this for sure because of JPEG compression.

If you upload an artifact-free version of the image, I am sure other users will offer you much more precise and useful help.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline mmirot

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Re: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« Reply #5 on: 2016 June 09 06:57:47 »
Yes,
 If you drop box the calibrated LRGB frames to the forum.  A few folks will likely take a crack at it.
I might even take a swing.

Max

Offline wisetrout

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Re: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« Reply #6 on: 2016 July 03 06:26:52 »
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.  I'm sorry I violated a forum rule with this post. 

Offline wisetrout

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Re: M31 Photoshop vs PixInsight
« Reply #7 on: 2016 July 03 10:31:46 »
Based on Juan Conejero's comments (PixInsight Development Team) I reworked my processing for M31 to try and implement his suggestions.  I made the following changes:

1.  Reduced added saturation when applying extracted luminance layer back into RGB (applied to entire unmasked image)
2.  Added no additional color processing
3.  Used HDR Multiplescale level 5 to enhance core detail (lost some brightness in core by doing so)
4.  Used very slight Local Histogram enhancement and Unsharp Mask to galaxy using reversed Color Range mask
5.  Ran one noise reduction using TGV with Luminance mask
6.  Used Curves Transform to apply added contrast

The image is here:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5evxgz65lazhrx/M31PIXrecommend.tif?dl=0

I would welcome further improvement suggestions and comments (I sincerely appreciate the time you must give in providing this).
I am especially interested in comments from Juan to learn if I improved in the areas he raised.

For info, the preprocessed tiff image is from Neil Heacock and available on the Yahoo Astrophotography Group site.

Mark