Author Topic: RGB problem  (Read 4800 times)

Offline Thomas

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RGB problem
« on: 2015 May 02 14:51:23 »
Hello,

as I was spending some days now  experimenting with "million" different PI parameter-settings and trying to understand what may could be wrong in my PixInsight RGB combination settings and found I should better ask some experts before I go crazy  >:D .

As seen in my added file the result of the PI RGB (left picture) looks much more worse (beside the color noise some stars look like a square ) then the one processed in Maxim (right picture). In Maxim I have just used the standard procedure - calibrate - align - stack (all settings default no extras, using the same bias, darks and flats, same pedestal as for PI) . I combined the RGB channels in PI (both are linear) with channel combination just adding STF. ( 200 Bias / 24 Flats for each channel / 48 Darks /  RGB 9 lights for each channel )

RGB in PI :

BatchPreprocessing:  I have tried it with different parameters in sigma low / high ,different combine methods, different reference images , with and without masters, etc.
(I have done this several times in older projects but I have never compared the results to others but this time)

Also I was going the long way in PI: Image calibration, Star Alignment, Image Integration  for every channel using the "best" picture (Subframeselector with no satellite in it) as reference from each channel , the star alignment for the RGB channel , I repeated this several times with different parameter settings. (The result was almost the same)

Equipmet used: QSI 683, Filters: Astrodon, FSQ 106 EDX III


Maybe I am missing something very basic ? Any ideas ?


Cheers and Clear Sky

Thomas

Offline oldwexi

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #1 on: 2015 May 02 15:43:22 »
Hi Thomas!
My experience with stars having black borders is - ist usually based in the StarAlignment process.
In StarAlignement if the parameter for PixelInterpolation is "Auto" i get sometimes also stars with black borders in a channel.
Using the Parameter "NearestNeighbour" in PixelInterpolation of StarAlignement solves this issue and get you round stars.

Everything else your the PI Version in my opinion is much much  sharper, has Mauch more contrast and details, the Maxim
Version is simply blurred and unusable ...

Gerald

Offline Thomas

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #2 on: 2015 May 02 16:04:59 »
PS: Gerald, meanwhile you were typing I found this out also, good to get a notice from the server that someone else was answering (nice feature ) :-) Thank you anyway.. Comparing it with Maxim was just for a visual demonstration..

I changed in the Image Registration the parameter: Pixel Interpolation from Auto  to Bicubic B-Spline and now it works well.

The default parameter Auto did the pixel interpolation with Lancoz (regarding to the Process Console) and this results in my case  in square stars .. strange .. Not sure if Bicubic B-Spline is the very best for my setting but maybe this finding will help others with similar problems.

Cheers and Clear Sky

Thomas


Offline Geoff

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #3 on: 2015 May 02 17:09:42 »
I've found that bicubic b-spline usually works better than auto for me.
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Offline pfile

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #4 on: 2015 May 02 23:29:02 »
yes i also use bicubic b-spline when i get ringing with the default lancosz-3. the clamping control for lancosz-3 does not seem to do much for the problem.

rob

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #5 on: 2015 May 03 03:01:00 »
Please read the documentation for interpolation algorithms I wrote some years ago.

In the comparison you've posted, the right-hand image is severely blurred. This result is typical of poor pixel interpolations (bilinear or some oversmoothing higher order algorithm, such as cubic b-spline), possibly combined with inaccurate image registration.

The small artifacts around some stars in the left-hand image are ringing artifacts caused by Lanczos or bicubic spline interpolation. Normally they should be eliminated by statistical rejection during image integration. If necessary, they can also be controlled with the interpolation clamping threshold parameter of StarAlignment. This may be necessary with weak (or low-SNR) data. In this case try reducing this parameter from its default value of 0.3 to something between 0.2 and 0.1 (but bear in mind that too low of a clamping threshold will degrade interpolation performance).

Quote
Using the Parameter "NearestNeighbour" in PixelInterpolation of StarAlignement solves this issue and get you round stars.

Nearest neighbor should never be used with correctly sampled or undersampled data, as it lacks subpixel registration accuracy. It cannot be used either with rotated frames for the same reason. With very few and special exceptions, there's no reason to use nearest neighbor interpolation in PixInsight IMO, since Lanczos is always better in virtually all practical cases. This is described in the documentation linked above.

Quote
The default parameter Auto did the pixel interpolation with Lancoz (regarding to the Process Console) and this results in my case  in square stars .. strange

Not strange at all. Square stars are just the correct result that can be expected from well acquired undersampled data. For example, see this document, specifically the Sampling section, to learn why this happens.

Quote
Not sure if Bicubic B-Spline is the very best for my setting but maybe this finding will help others with similar problems.

Bicubic B-spline is one of the worst options for pixel interpolation with deep-sky images. Actually, this algorithm is retained in our implementation mainly for completeness and historic reasons. This interpolation method has very poor aliasing characteristics.

If the small artifacts are really a problem for you, and you can't control them with pixel rejection and/or the clamping threshold parameter and Lanczos interpolation, try with bicubic spline interpolation, where ringing is less problematic.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline pfile

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #6 on: 2015 May 03 16:15:21 »
sorry for the misinformation, in fact i use bicubic spline. i should have checked before posting - the only way i can remember which one to use is that bicubic spline has a clamping control...

rob

Offline Geoff

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #7 on: 2015 May 03 17:11:01 »
sorry for the misinformation, in fact i use bicubic spline. i should have checked before posting - the only way i can remember which one to use is that bicubic spline has a clamping control...

rob
You are not alone Rob.  I'm guilty of spreading the same misinformation.
Geoff
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Offline oldwexi

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Re: RGB problem
« Reply #8 on: 2015 May 04 05:37:29 »
Quote
Using the Parameter "NearestNeighbour" in PixelInterpolation of StarAlignement solves this issue and get you round stars.

Quote
Nearest neighbor should never be used with correctly sampled or undersampled data, as it lacks subpixel registration accuracy. It cannot be used either with rotated frames for the same reason. With very few and special exceptions, there's no reason to use nearest neighbor interpolation in PixInsight IMO, since Lanczos is always better in virtually all practical cases. This is described in the documentation linked above.

Sorry for advicing "NearestNeighbour". When i get black borders on stars in the channels i tried this and the black borders disappeared.
Thanks to Juan now i know it is  not a good solution. Next time will search for better solutions like Lanczos...

Gerald