Author Topic: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance  (Read 5760 times)

Offline sreilly

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I understand that Juan had explained to someone on the forum that doing the RGB data binned 1x1 and extracting the luminance was a better practice that taking the RGB data binned 2x2 and taking the luminance 1x1 for a L+RGB image. Now I may have misunderstood the concept, or even the conversation in itself but any light shed on this would be great. I did not actually see the explanation.

My setup puts me at 0.64 arc seconds per pixel scale binning 1x1 and of course at 1.28 binned 2x2. This is using my typical imaging equipment of the 12.5" @f/9 RC and STL-11002M camera. I usually take the RGB data binned 2x2 and luminance binned 1x1. So the question becomes, is this the recommended method or is there a more efficient means to the same end?

Is the extracted luminance channel from a RGB image equal to or better than luminance taken separately? Am I better off taking RGB images at 1x1 and extracting and using the luminance layer?

Sorry if I seem a bit confused on this but I can't see the reasoning behind this but welcome the discussion as long as we keep the terminology less scientific so I can follow along in plain man's terms. :)

Thanks,
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
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Offline pfile

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Re: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance
« Reply #1 on: 2014 August 10 09:10:38 »
i think it really depends on your sky and your equipment. are you oversampled at 1.28 app?

rob

Offline sreilly

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Re: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance
« Reply #2 on: 2014 August 10 09:43:02 »
Of the 52 luminance images I took of the Iris Nebula binned 1x1 the FWHM ranges from 1.66" - 2.55".  23 of those were below 2". So I'd have to say yes. Of the 59 RGB binned 2x2 on different nights of course, the range was 1.91" - 3.78"
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline pfile

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Re: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance
« Reply #3 on: 2014 August 10 11:22:19 »
IMHO the technical reasons to bin are 1) matching your image scale to your sky and 2) boosting SNR, provided that the hardware binning actually does result in an effective reduction in read noise.

along the way someone realized that since the human eye perceives the sharpness in an image from the image's L component, why not bin the color frames? this assumes #2 is true, or else there's not much point. the idea is that if you are collecting LRGB frames, you should capture the L at the seeing limit and then merge it together with the lower-resolution color image, which in theory can be shorter total integration time since the SNR is higher to begin with.

i guess the counter-argument is that unless your sky is very dark, or you are doing narrowband imaging, you are very unlikely to be read-noise limited. the background sky signal is far above the read noise anyway, so the SNR boost from binning is effectively the same as software binning. apparently also some sensors do not actually exhibit an SNR boost when hardware binning - the read noise is not amortized over all the pixels in the bin for some reason.

the advantage of using bin 1x1 everywhere (again, assuming bin 1x1 does not way oversample your sky) is that you can use your RGB frames to construct the L frame. or if you are also taking separate L frames, use the RGB frames together with your L frames to boost the SNR of the final L. with bin 2x2 RGB this would not be a good idea.

omitting the L filter and making a pseudo-luminance frame from RGB may be advantageous in high-LP environments - in some (most?) filter sets there are gaps between the R, G and B filters which in theory omit some of the wavelengths generated by artificial light sources. of course nowadays with these white LEDs we are probably doomed as the LP signature is going to become more and more broad-spectrum.

rob



Offline jkmorse

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Re: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance
« Reply #4 on: 2014 August 10 12:10:26 »
Steve,

Here's the thread that includes Juan's explanations about LRGB vs RGB.

Best,

Jim
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Offline jkmorse

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Re: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance
« Reply #5 on: 2014 August 10 12:12:01 »
Be nice if I actually included the thread: http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=6042.msg41037#msg41037

Bext,

Jim
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

New Mexico Skies Observatory
Apogee Aspen 16803
Planewave CDK17 - Paramount MEII
Planewave IFR90 - Astrodon LRGB & NB filters
SkyX - MaximDL - ACP

http://www.jimmorse-astronomy.com
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Offline jkmorse

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Re: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance
« Reply #6 on: 2014 August 10 12:19:54 »
Steve,

The second thread referenced in the first post is particularly important as it really lays out Juan's explanation.  For convenience here it is again: http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=1636.msg9297#msg9297

Best,

Jim
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

New Mexico Skies Observatory
Apogee Aspen 16803
Planewave CDK17 - Paramount MEII
Planewave IFR90 - Astrodon LRGB & NB filters
SkyX - MaximDL - ACP

http://www.jimmorse-astronomy.com
http://www.astrobin.com/users/JimMorse

Offline sreilly

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Re: Advantages of RGB Data 1x1 vs. 2X2, Extracted Luminance
« Reply #7 on: 2014 August 10 12:34:11 »
Thanks Jim. Unfortunately most of the referenced picture links no longer work but reading through the text gives me a bit better understanding of the idea behind this.

Thanks Again,

Steve
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5