Author Topic: Why so different colours?  (Read 7498 times)

Offline gpassera

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Why so different colours?
« on: 2014 April 23 00:20:01 »
Hi experts
I would like submit a question that I can't answer by myself, maybe something is missing but I can't find what.
I would like to repeat the Hubble ST image management that you can find at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z716bsjgguikrz6/Y4Le-_EGb8

I downloaded the images and I think the source wasn't changed in the HST site since the day of the demo,  but as soon as I try to create the RGB I get very different colours.
If, in STF, If leave the "chain" icon on (link to RGB) my Image is totally orange  otherwise the colours are very poor, nothing to compare with the demo colours?

Any ideas why this difference? Could be the colour calibration setup?

Thank you and regards

Giuseppe

Offline gpassera

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #1 on: 2014 April 23 21:36:16 »
Nobody can help me?
Ciao

astropixel

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #2 on: 2014 April 24 00:47:09 »
I'm not an expert, but

Have you tried background extraction?

Offline gpassera

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #3 on: 2014 April 24 02:39:45 »
Rowland

first of all thank you for your answer.

I didn't but I will do and I'll let you know.

I can understand that my problem is a little bit strange but I'm really surprised that, starting from the same image set and following the same steps I have so different color tonality.

Thank you and regards.

Ciao
Giuseppe
 

Offline gpassera

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #4 on: 2014 April 25 07:26:20 »
Rowland

background extraction didn't help me.
Nothing changed.

Thank you

Giuseppe

Offline GaryP

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #5 on: 2014 April 28 11:33:56 »
Thanks to Giuseppe for calling attention to the possibility of using the HubblesHiddenProcessing video to discover how to import and combine Hubble images. I have also been trying to learn how to do this. I tried it.

I obtained the two images from the Hubble Legacy Archive. They are images of NGC1763 with filenames

HST_9419_03_ACS_WFC_F658N_sci.fits
and
HST_9419_03_ACS_WFC_F660N_sci.fits

The numbers 658N and 660N refer to wavelengths.

I opened them in PixInsight and following the video, applied an identical crop and rotation to both. Then there is a bit of the video that goes by very rapidly where one has to reset the identifiers for the two images, with the 658n image reset to R and the 660n image reset to B using the Image --> Identifier dialog. Then it appears that one can assign colors to the wavelengths by opening the PixelMath window and putting B in the R/K box, B*.5+R*.5 in the G box, and R in the B box, then check Generate Output, Create New Image, and select RGB in the Color Space drop down menu to get a nice colored image. I applied the PixelMath and obtained a new image. After applying STF, what I saw was a grey image with the same features as the two sources. I played with the SFT, HistogramTransformation, and HistogramEqualization, but could get nothing sensible. Did the video omit a step? Maybe someone else can take it from here. Gerald, are you monitoring?

Since writing the above, I found a forum thread in which JC, I think, said it was necessary to stretch the images before combining them. I tried stretching before applying PixelMath and eventually obtained an image of sepia tone. With further prodding using ColorCalibration and the HistogramTransformation, I was seeing differentiated colors, garish greens and reds or purples. They added up to nothing resembling a visually pleasing image, but perhaps it is progress.

Third try. I don't know how to quantify the effects of multiple HistogramTransformation applications, but I tried to stretch both the source images about the same amount. Then I applied the PixelMath and equalized the colors using the HistogramTransformation separately in R, G, and B. CurvesTransformation set at RGB/K lightened it up. The result is the second attachment.

I see that ESA and NASA also distribute a free-standing version of FITS Liberator that works on both PCs and Macs. It may or may not make some things easier. I have yet to try it. There is a tutorial at

http://hubblesite.org/get_involved/hubble_image_processors/visualizing_hubble_data.pdf

Perhaps there is a good tutorial for doing this in PixInsight that I am unaware of. I can think of nothing that is more likely to boost the popularity of PI. There must be hundreds of thousands of people who don't own astrophotography gear yet would like to develop their own Hubble images.

Gary
« Last Edit: 2014 April 29 08:41:03 by GaryP »
PI 01.08.01.1092 on 4GB iMac w. Mavericks, Canon T1i DSLR, William Optics 110mm APO FL770, WO focal reducer (at 73.5 mm), CGEM

Offline Phil Leigh

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #6 on: 2014 April 29 09:38:52 »
You would think that 658nm and 660nm are too close together... ?

Offline GaryP

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #7 on: 2014 April 29 10:05:37 »
I wondered about that, but I followed the video cited by Giuseppe as closely as I could. It was frenetic and difficult to follow, but I stopped it to look at the hubble selections and I'm pretty sure that's what the author used.
PI 01.08.01.1092 on 4GB iMac w. Mavericks, Canon T1i DSLR, William Optics 110mm APO FL770, WO focal reducer (at 73.5 mm), CGEM

Offline gpassera

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #8 on: 2014 April 30 00:06:34 »
Thanks to all for the answers, and sorry for the delay, I was a little bit busy.

I downloaded the same images of the author and I followed step by step the tutorial , several times, but there is no way to obtain the same colours.

Before the HistTransf the image is orange and after the image comes crazy.

Let me some days to post all the steps. I thinks this could help our analysis . :D

Best regards to all.

Giuseppe



Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #9 on: 2014 April 30 05:34:12 »
Hi Giuseppe,

I have downloaded the same HLA images shown on the original video (F658N and F660N), and the RGB combination works just the same way without any problems (as expected, of course).

This shows the original images (I have cropped them differently) and the RGB combined image with PixelMath:


Here you can see a quick test with HistogramTransformation in real time, after transferring STF parameters:


So I don't know why this doesn't work for you. Are you sure you are using STF with *unlinked* RGB channels?

By the way, I have found significant alignment errors between these two HLA images (average errors about 1 pixel, with peak errors above 1.8 pixels). This animation shows the difference between the RGB combined image generated with the original and registered frames:


I have applied StarAlignment to register the F660N (B) image with F658N (R). I strongly recommend to register HLA images with StarAlignment before combining them.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #10 on: 2014 April 30 05:54:15 »
I see that ESA and NASA also distribute a free-standing version of FITS Liberator that works on both PCs and Macs. It may or may not make some things easier. I have yet to try it. There is a tutorial at

http://hubblesite.org/get_involved/hubble_image_processors/visualizing_hubble_data.pdf

If you have PixInsight, what do you need "FITS Liberator" for? You certainly don't have to "liberate" the FITS format; it is already quite "libero" in PixInsight. FITS Liberator was "necessary" to import Hubble data in Photoshop, simply because Photoshop is (and still is) unable to work with linear images. Funny enough, PixInsight LE was already available as a freeware application with full support of the FITS and TIFF formats and 32-bit floating point images since 2004.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline GaryP

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #11 on: 2014 April 30 07:10:59 »
Having never used PS or FITS Liberator, I find it amusing that a software program had to be written to "liberate" the .fits files for PS, where previously they must have been held in government custody. I have no desire to add an inessential software program to the scarce space on the hard drive.

I tried using the ScreenTransferFunction on the new combined file, and I did unlink the RGB channels with the Chain icon. I forget whether there was any visual effect at all, but whatever it was, it wasn't good. I didn't bother to add that process to the HistogramTransformation.

Thanks for the tips. Learning how to register frames is at the head of my bucket list.
« Last Edit: 2014 April 30 07:16:47 by GaryP »
PI 01.08.01.1092 on 4GB iMac w. Mavericks, Canon T1i DSLR, William Optics 110mm APO FL770, WO focal reducer (at 73.5 mm), CGEM

Offline gpassera

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #12 on: 2014 May 02 03:30:47 »
This is my rgb image obtained with the same pixel math of the tutorial.
Maybe I have some problem with colours but as you can see is totally different respect Gary's and Juan's pictures.
The histograms after hist. transf. are different.
I'm sure that I'm missing something but I really don't know what considering that I have to follow a relative simple steps  :(
I wish to thank you for your interest to my problem.
Great community!!!

Giuseppe

Offline GaryP

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #13 on: 2014 May 02 08:03:33 »
It looks like the assignments of colors to the layers corresponding to source images might have been reversed from what Juan and I did. There are two points where that could happen, but with the available information on the screen, it's hard to tell which it is. The first point is where identifiers are assigned to source images. The second is in PixelMath where identifiers are assigned to colors. You could try reversing either one to see what happens, but I believe that it would have been more conventional if the authors of the video had used PixelMath to assign B to B and R to R, so perhaps it is Giuseppe who has the correct image.
PI 01.08.01.1092 on 4GB iMac w. Mavericks, Canon T1i DSLR, William Optics 110mm APO FL770, WO focal reducer (at 73.5 mm), CGEM

Offline gpassera

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Re: Why so different colours?
« Reply #14 on: 2014 May 02 12:11:00 »
mmmm.... sometime things are so clear in front of us but, for some reason, we wan't see. :-\ :-\ :-\

I was wrong!!!!

I inverted B and R so colours was so strange.
In the past I repeated all the steps a lot of times but always with inverted colours....argh..so stupid
Few minutes ago I repeated the elaboration one time again, but now with the right colour association in pix.math. and "magically" I have the right colours.   :o :o :o
Please believe me, I'm so embarrassed because I caused a great waste of time from you.

Anyway
Hope you don't hate me , and..THANK YOU again for your precious support.
Please don't put me on the black list :)

Ciao and ..clear skies

Giuseppe