Author Topic: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux  (Read 5295 times)

Offline jkmorse

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Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« on: 2013 October 02 01:04:29 »
PixInsight World,

In an earlier post I asked whether it was worth it to convert to Linux and had some very helpful reponses.  Based on those and for a reason I will describe shortly, I have decided to take the plunge and totally convert my processing laptop to Linux.  Since the experience may be helpful to others, I thought I would share my adventure with everyone.  First off, as I mentioned in my other post, I have a perfect set up for a conversion to Linux since I use two separate PCs, one dedicated to processing and one that I use in the field for image capture and equipment control.  Given that many field critical software packages don't work under Linux (I know I could dual boot, but for that machine it wouldn't make sense) I will keep that one working under Wimdows 7.

The processing one, however, is perfect, especially since as a recent high end machine, it came bundled with Windows 8, which I hate.  But there is also a philisophical issue involved around how I am processing my images.  I have said in other posts about how much better PixInsight is for processing than the other (unmentionable) programs out there that we have all used in the past.  PixInsight is better, but not easier (and this is a very good thing), since it actually makes you think about the physics of your images, not just stack layers and paint pretty pictures. 

But there's the rub.  Its easiest to see this with an analogy.  As my picture shows, I could stand to lose a few pounds.  And like everybody else, I know I should exercise and eat better.  But whenever there are goodies in the frig or cupboard, I am always snacking on things I know are only giving me a short term lift but are hurting me long term and not making my picture any better.  The same is true for image processing.  PixInsight is like a healthy, well balance diet thats really really good for you and your images.  But sometimes its hard and the temptation to go open one of those old go to snack programs to get a quick fix is just overwhelming.  So you go and snack on those empty calories and feel good for a few minutes because you got the immediate sugar rush of a prettier picture.  Then later you feel guilty since you "cheated" and on top of it, didn't do your image or the embedded data any favors.  :-[

So what's the best way to stay on your diet?  Obviously you need to get rid of all those temptations!  Go to the kitchen and just start throwing out all the junk food.  But to really be effective, you need to do more.  After all, you could always just go to the store and buy more when your resolve is weak.  No, if you really want to go cold turkey, you not only need to throw out the junk food, you need to burn down the junk food store.   >:D

So that's what I am going to do, burn down the junk food store by converting to Linux where none of the junk food programs will work.  Power to the People!!!

Now, that said, I still need to make it happen so where do I stand?  Well, after one night, the score is Computer 1 - Jim 0  >:(  The first thing I did was go to download Linux Mint, but then discovered I needed a DVD-R disc to burn the program to and of course, I didn't have any of those laying around.  So off to the mall.  Unfortunately they seem to have never heard of DVD-R's here in Dubai.  I tried 4 different electronics' stores with no luck.  But in the end, the French superstore, Carrefour, had them so I headed back home (with a bag of chips and a candy bar as a treat (hey, only one diet at a time please)).   

Then I started to run into roadblocks.  I have not tried to do a disk boot in years and in the meantime Mircosoft and the PC manufacturers have gotten together to make it a hell of a lot harder than it used to be.  I ended up have to change like 4 different boot settings just to get to the point where the machine would even let me try a disc boot, but I got there.  Unfortunately, every time I got to the screen offering me the choice of running Linux or Windows 8 (which I had to hit in 8 seconds or less or it defaulted to Windows 8 - Damn you Microsoft!) the system crashed, telling me some required code was missing from the Linux disk.  By that time it was 11pm and frustration set in so round 1 goes to the computer.

But I shall persevere and let you know how it all turns out.  ???

Jim
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

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Offline papaf

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #1 on: 2013 October 02 04:22:20 »
I know nothing about mint, but every linux distributions I've tried can be made to run from USB sticks. Usually the download is still in .iso format, but it can be loaded on an usb stick.
I suggest some ubuntu variant, instead of mint. Mint has a very strict package selection which can sometimes give problems. Not to PI, I think, but in general.
Ubuntu is more relaxed. If coming from windows, kubuntu is even better.

Offline Carlos Milovic

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #2 on: 2013 October 02 04:37:59 »
Hi Jim
You may also try to boot from an usb flash disk (pendrive).
I have not tried Mint, so I cannot give you references about it. Each distro has its own strenghts and weakness. Perhaps the most used worldwide is Ubuntu. It is focused on making things easier to the new user, is very stable, and have a lot of support from the forums. The downside is that the default desktop (unity) is not of the likes of many people, specially those accustomed to focus on work rather than multimedia/web. My first years in linux were with kubuntu, and then I changed to Fedora. Fedora is a bit harder than ubuntu, in the sence that is has a more "linux philosophy" of doing things (you'll use the console a lot). It is also more dynamic, it is updated faster and this created some incompatibilities in the past. Anyway, if this encourages you, this is the prefered platform for development of almost all in the core pixinsight team. I use KDE on my desktop pc, and Gnome on my laptop.

As someone suggested, download them all, and try the live cd versions (or from the usb), before installing. It will run very slow, but show you the feeling of each platform. Also remember that most of the desktop handlers allow you to fully personalize them (i find kde to be the more flexible).


Good luck. :)

Oh, before intalling, read a lot about disk partitioning in linux. I use a 30gb partition for the system (ext4 format), a 16gb swap partition, and the rest for a ext4 partition for /home
If i have a dual boot desktop, i leave a 50gb ntfs partition for windows system, and 300gb for the data also in ntfs.
Regards,

Carlos Milovic F.
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PixInsight Project Developer
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Offline jkmorse

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #3 on: 2013 October 02 22:49:44 »
Papaf and Carlos,

Huge thanks for the suggestions.  Last night I started loading Kubuntu.  Current score:  Computer 2 - Jim 1  :'( 

This stuff is taking me back to the early 80's (hell, disco wasn't even dead yet  O0).  Anyway, I scored by finally remembering how to play with boot sequences and the Ubuntu support pages helped get the rest of the settings right so I was on my way early on and was able to get Kubuntu loading.  But then the Computer side swiped me with Grubs.  I kept getting errors on the inability to set up the Grubs partition.  Again turning to the Ubuntu help pages, I loaded up Boot Repair and went with the recommended settings, but that didn't work either. 

So now I am trying to work through the possibilities.  Where I currently am is setting up a grub_boot partition about 5mb in size (Ubuntu help says it needs to be >1mb so that should be plenty big).  I tried setting that up in a partition after the big partition holding the vast majority of my 1Tb of space, but that didn't work.  The clue was that the boot repair program seems to be trying to set up the grub_boot partition in the same space as the big partition (something like sda2 and I had the grub partition in slot 3).  That suggests to my simple mind that I need to get the grub partition in front of the big partition so I put the computer to work on that last night, but since it is moving some 925Gb a mere 5MB over, its taking its time.   

If I actually get this to work, I will then set up the partition sizes as recommended by Carlos in his note above.

For all you guys who know what you are doing, if you see something obvious that I am missing or if you think what I am doing is inane, please send out a shout to keep me from hurting myself  :o

Thanks all,

Jim     
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

New Mexico Skies Observatory
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Planewave CDK17 - Paramount MEII
Planewave IFR90 - Astrodon LRGB & NB filters
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Offline jkmorse

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #4 on: 2013 October 02 22:53:42 »
Folks,

I should have added that, per Ubuntu recommendations, I have the flag set to grub_boot and have the grub partition set as unformatted.

Thanks,

Jim
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

New Mexico Skies Observatory
Apogee Aspen 16803
Planewave CDK17 - Paramount MEII
Planewave IFR90 - Astrodon LRGB & NB filters
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Offline papaf

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #5 on: 2013 October 02 23:12:44 »
Seems to me you're fighting against one of those new computer BIOSes which complicate matters. Unfortunately, I've never played with one myself. The only suggestion I might have is try the beta of the new to be released kubuntu 13.10: the rationale is that the newer the distribution, the better chance to work on newest bioses/computers...

Offline papaf

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #6 on: 2013 October 03 04:52:02 »
More on the boot topic: windows 8 equipped PCs seem to boot in UEFI mode. This is a new boot method which seems to grant faster boot times. However it's a real pain to make it work in current linux distribution as the kernel is showing some bugs with it. Like I said, better would be to try with a very recent distro, like the beta of kubuntu 13.10.
OTOH, if you want to get rid of windows 8 completely, it may be possible to revert to the old booting method. This depends on the computer BIOS, so you could search for that too.
What's the brand and model of your PC?

Offline jerryyyyy

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #7 on: 2013 October 03 09:54:57 »
We have various distros of Linux running on a number of machines in my lab and I just installed the latest Ubunto in a dual boot with Windows 7.   I do not think 8 is much different.  What I recalled I was forced to do was to repartition with a 40GB free sector and then Ubunto did its thing into that sector with no problem.  Its bootloader rules Windows. 

What machine are you using? 

You may want to consider a downgrade to W7.  I have installed W8 on a couple machines and have had frustrated users request a downgrade even with the start button substitutes.  If you buy Dell, this is easy to downgrade.  One OEM license covers all.  Whatever you do watchout for the 8.1 upgrade... not sure what that breaks for you, but probably a lot. 

On the positive side, W8 has faster file transfers than W7... but that is about it... also the disk imaging is even more obscurely hidden than in W7. 

Oh do I hate Microsoft.   >:D
Takahashi 180ED
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Offline papaf

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #8 on: 2013 October 04 01:04:46 »

Offline jkmorse

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #9 on: 2013 October 05 02:05:07 »
Guys,

Thanks for all the effort and sorry for not responding earlier.  Was out at my dark sky sight this weekend imaging NGC891 (trying the new - at least for me - RGB method with a synLum; will report out how that goes, assuming I ever get Linux up and running).

Clearly you guys have hit on it and I will be spending the day seeing if I can get this thing switched over.  And I totally agree with the hating Microsoft view, though Apple with their dumbing down ain't a whole lot better in my mind.  >:(  Btw, my machine is a Samsung 880Z with a Core i7, Radeon graphics card, 16gb of RAM and a 1tb hard drive.  Oh yeah, and a Windows 8 bios from hell. 

Starting on your suggestions now and will report out my progress.  Need to get this done today cause I am heading back to the US tonight for 2 weeks of much needed R&R with the family (haven't seen them in a couple of months). 

Thanks loads and wish me luck, gonna need it

Jim
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

New Mexico Skies Observatory
Apogee Aspen 16803
Planewave CDK17 - Paramount MEII
Planewave IFR90 - Astrodon LRGB & NB filters
SkyX - MaximDL - ACP

http://www.jimmorse-astronomy.com
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Offline jkmorse

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #10 on: 2013 October 05 02:38:01 »
Btw, I hope my field machine never breaks down.  Its a Windows 7 machine and the thought of having to replace it with a Windows 8 beast is just too terrible to contemplate.  Entropy always increases, sigh  :sad:

Jim
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

New Mexico Skies Observatory
Apogee Aspen 16803
Planewave CDK17 - Paramount MEII
Planewave IFR90 - Astrodon LRGB & NB filters
SkyX - MaximDL - ACP

http://www.jimmorse-astronomy.com
http://www.astrobin.com/users/JimMorse

Offline jkmorse

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Re: Going Cold Turkey - My Conversion to Linux
« Reply #11 on: 2013 October 05 04:20:19 »
Yee Haa!! ;D

Windows 8 can be defeated!!  >:D

Final Score: Computer 2, me 2, PixInsight Forum a perfect 10  8). 

A special thanks to Carlos and Jerrryyy for their suggestions and a huge thank you to papaf who had not one, but two solutions that look to be winners for anyone else out there trying this for themselves.  I started with papaf's first suggestion that I give Kubuntu 13.10 a try and that did the trick, though I have little doubt that had that failed his second suggestion and the link he provided would have worked equally as well.

So, while I am typing this on my field machine, my Samsung just booted up Kubuntu for the first time.  Next step is to get PixInsight for Linux loaded up and get back to work.

Thanks again,

Jim
Really, are clear skies, low wind and no moon that much to ask for? 

New Mexico Skies Observatory
Apogee Aspen 16803
Planewave CDK17 - Paramount MEII
Planewave IFR90 - Astrodon LRGB & NB filters
SkyX - MaximDL - ACP

http://www.jimmorse-astronomy.com
http://www.astrobin.com/users/JimMorse