COMPLAINT - PixInsight Website

[dkopacz]

Every time I open a PixInsight web page (like tutorials) with IE9 the page loads and I have nice dark fonts for about 1.5 seconds!

Then the web page changes the fonts to a light gray which is difficult to read.

For company that is all about CONTRAST... the contrast of your web pages literally sucks.

You text blends right into the background and looks washed out.

This does not happen with Firefox, but I shouldn't be foreced to use Firefox to view your website.

Please fix it.

Dave

[FunTomas]

Hi Dave.

When You use IE9, please use it in Document mode IE9 Standards. Press F12 on page and look on top of the new frame. See attachments.

Tomáš

[dkopacz]

That's a handy tip, thank you.

I don't think it's the best solution. Is it better to have dozens of people have to figure this out on their own, find this thread or just deal with the poor contrast rather than just fixing it on the site?

I visit dozens of new websites daily, and I host thousands. In all of my web surfing this is the ONLY website that I have encountered that displays pages with such poor contrast that it is really difficult to read.

What impact will this change have on other websites? There must be a reason it was defaulted it IE8.

[dkopacz]

A view source of the web page header shows this...

      <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=8" />


Perhaps changing it to       <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=9" /> will fix the problem for everyone.

[Carlos Milovic]

Why not use a real browser, like Firefox or Chrome?

[jdonald]

I agree, ditch IE.  I have been using Chrome for years and never had an issue.

[dkopacz]

Why not use a real browser, like Firefox or Chrome?

This is how you treat your paying customers?

Perhaps you should consider fixing your website so it works in all browsers instead of asking your customers  to change browsers.

I am not impressed with your response Carlos.

[Bob Andersson]

Hi dkopacz,

You might find Web browser color management by Simon Tindemans an interesting read, particularly if you have a wide gamut monitor or if you've color calibrated your monitor. Indeed, as most monitors these days ship with a default profile the points made are pretty generally applicable.

Two quotes:

Conceptually, color management in a web browser context consists of two stages: interpretation and output mapping. The interpretation stage is concerned with taking the color information on a web page (typically in the form of RGB triplets) and interpreting them in terms of a color space. This associates an intended visual response with the RGB numbers. Then, in the second stage, these colors are converted back to (different) RGB triplets [and] sent to the monitor

Internet Explorer

Internet Explorer should not be used for color critical work. Although it understands both ICCv2 and ICCv4 profiles, it does not use the monitor profile, which means you cannot rely on what you're seeing. IE9 may be passable only if you have reason to believe that the native response of your monitor is close to sRGB. Otherwise, avoid.

Firefox

Firefox is currently the best choice for color managed browsing. It provides good out-of-the-box support for ICCv2 images and the monitor profile. Support for ICCv2 LUT and ICCv4 profiles and the default assignment of sRGB profiles can be enabled through a user preference (see instructions below).

I'm afraid I came to the conclusion many years ago that IE isn't fit for purpose when browsing images on the web. Go on, give Firefox a try... 

Bob.

[papaf]

To the OP:

Just my 2 eurocents here. And first of all, a big red disclaimer: I'm not affiliated in any way or form with Pleiades software, or PixInsight. I'm just a user.
Making websites is not an easy task, at all. That is, without considering the huge amount of fog Microsoft generated with their joke of a browser. IE has been tweaked for years to facilitate the work of retarded web page developers who couldn't figure out basic HTML standards; to do so, IE silently reinterprets HTML code as it sees fit. And of course, every other release of this "program" changes the mentality of it. So, it's very possible that, taking a single page as an example, you'll have 5 different render using 5 different IE release. This is an abominion.
IE _has_ to be thrown out the window. And simply telling developer to "make a site that works for every browser" is a very ignorant statement. Please, don't be offended by this, I really mean ignorant by its literal meaning, as in not knowing what this is about.
I work for a company that makes sites for a living, and believe me: if 2 rows of code makes something happen in a page for real browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera, even Konqueror!), you need about 15 additional lines for _every_ version of IE out there to not make it go mad. Are you serious??!!
And I don't even want to delve into virus vulnerabilities.

By ditching IE, you'll make a favour to yourself, not anybody else.

And, also a little bit of advice: the little faces one puts into an answer, are there for a reason. Carlos was joking, and your answer is, to my standards, very offensive. As it is the fact that you obviously came here already irritated and would not accept any answer as valid. Not a really smart way of using a _forum_, to me at least.

[Harry page]

Hi

I am afraid IE still has a very large market share , and not supporting it is not the way to go

what ever your views on it 

Harry

[pfile]

yes after reading this post i looked up browser traffic statistics and could not believe that IE still has > 50% marketshare. unbelievable.

[dkopacz]

Bob,

I appreciate the information you have posted and the time you spent gathering the information.

FYI, I was not using the browser to look at images. My complaint is much more basic. I read text from hundreds of websites every week and 99.999% of them render text with a contrast that I can read, despite the fonts or styles chosen by the web developer.

I just want to be able to read the tutorials on the PixInsight website and I shouldn't be forced to ANY particular browser in order to do so. In fact, no one should.

This isn't about me and my choice of browser. This is solely about a rendering problem that can be fixed for EVERYONE with a simple change to the site.

Papaf, you may find my response offensive and that fine if you wish to interpret it that way. It is certainly not meant to be offensive. It is meant to get the point across about customer service.

I know how to build websites and I understand the complexities of making a web site cross browser compatible.

I couldn't imagine telling my paying clients which browser they should use or support. It's poor customer service. I am a PixInsight customer and I expect better service than to be told that a problem that affects many is MY problem. It isn't my problem, it is PixInsight problem and they should fix it. If it takes them 10 minutes or 2 hours is irrelevant. They have everything to gain and little to lose.

If you think about it for a few minutes you may realize that all of the PixInsight users benefit by them fixing the problem also, simply by virtue of more users (IE users) being able to use their website without having to change browsers or figure out how to change their browser to allow them to read the text with proper contrast.

More visitors mean more customers which mean more revenue and more revenue means a better end product for YOU.

So while you might think I am "ignorant" for my choice of browser with which I read the tutorials, I can assure you that an ounce of good customer service is worth its weight in gold.

[papaf]

I'm going to reply to a few point.

Papaf, you may find my response offensive and that fine if you wish to interpret it that way. It is certainly not meant to be offensive. It is meant to get the point across about customer service.

What I found offensive is the rude way in which you replied to what was clearly a joke. I also find inappropriate the thought that, in order to get the point across as you said, you find it's ok to be rude at people. It seems you imply that your request will otherwise be ignored.

I know how to build websites and I understand the complexities of making a web site cross browser compatible.

I couldn't imagine telling my paying clients which browser they should use or support. It's poor customer service. I am a PixInsight customer and I expect better service than to be told that a problem that affects many is MY problem. It isn't my problem, it is PixInsight problem and they should fix it. If it takes them 10 minutes or 2 hours is irrelevant. They have everything to gain and little to lose.

I'm sorry but, even rereading the thread and my post multiple times, I can't for the life of me find where I point my finger at _you_. Yet you seem to imply someone did. Everyone here is blaming IE, yet you take it personally.
Also, let's say it takes 10 minutes to fix the problem. In which way should it be fixed, though? The site is currently perfectly within HTML standards, yet IE is interpreting it incorrectly. So, we just go around it, like many sites do. Where will this take us in the long run? I know I'm getting a bit philosophical here, but hey, you can't expect much more from a linux user, can you?
Also, if we talk about time lost, how much time is going to take you to install Chrome and/or Firefox? Have you considered any of the benefit other users said to you in this thread? Maybe the fault you found with IE is the right nudge to make you change browsers.

If you think about it for a few minutes you may realize that all of the PixInsight users benefit by them fixing the problem also, simply by virtue of more users (IE users) being able to use their website without having to change browsers or figure out how to change their browser to allow them to read the text with proper contrast.

More visitors mean more customers which mean more revenue and more revenue means a better end product for YOU.

Again, you're implying you're talking to Pleiades software directly, while I clearly stated I'm a mere user. But this got me thinking: why don't we get many more complaints? Maybe, as I said, changing browser is not the end of the world. You said earlier that 99.999% of sites are in readable text. But maybe they would be better with other browsers nonetheless. Some bugs can be big, like the one you've seen on pixinsight.com, but others can be subtle. You can never know if you don't try.

So while you might think I am "ignorant" for my choice of browser with which I read the tutorials, I can assure you that an ounce of good customer service is worth its weight in gold.

Again, in this snip you are clearly reading my post wrong. Please take the time to read it again. I never called you ignorant for the choice of browser. I assumed you, as the vast majority of users of PI, had no idea how a site was built. You stated otherwise, I stand corrected. But I never mentioned your choice of browser as your source of ignorance, at all.

[dkopacz]

You said it all right here... "you can't expect much more from a linux user, can you?"

Your prejudice is evident.

I'm done having this discussion with you.

Juan, please fix the site so it renders properly in IE9.

It would be much appreciated.

[papaf]

I'm done too. Obviously, you can't see the smileys. That was another joke.