Author Topic: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies  (Read 4895 times)

Offline troypiggo

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LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« on: 2012 May 22 22:52:12 »
Having done a few LRGB images now, I thought I was understanding the workflow and process.  Some images my workflow seems to be fine, others the results are horrible.  I've based my methods mostly on the 2 part LRGB video on the PI Youtube channel.  In very rough summary:

- calibrate, register, integrate
- use LRGBCombination to just combine the RGB parts, leaving out the L
- BackgroundNeutralisation and ColorCalibration, DBE if needed
- any other linear processing needed
- auto STF both the L and RGB images
- drag the STF process icon onto HistogramTransformation bottom bar to transfer the STF settings to HT
- execute the HT and reset STF as shouldn't be needed now
- the histograms of all RGB channels and the L all peak roughly 1/4 point
- now combine the L into the RGB image with LRGBCombine

I've done this a few times, and on some images it works beautifully and simple.  But other images the RGB by itself looks good, the L by itself looks good, but when they combine the result is horrible.

See below screenshot.
Bottom left is just RGB combined and stretched.
Top right is just L stretched.
Bottom right is the L extracted from the RGB image just to show how much brighter it is than the L integrated image.
Top left is the L applied to RGB using LRGBCombine.  Horrible.  I know I should play with the LRGBCombine transfer functions, but not matter what I adjusted them to, the resulting combo was horrible.

I'm thinking I'll just keep the bottom left RGB and toss the L.  What do you think I'm doing wrong?  Is it in my image capture or post-processing?  All subs were same length and same binning.

Why is the L extracted from the RGB image so lacking in contrast compared to the actual L integrated image?  To my eyes, the L top right looks more close to the bottom left RGB luminance.

Offline jerryyyyy

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #1 on: 2013 April 20 15:08:59 »
I noticed nobody responded to this query as I pretty much have the same questions.  I used Harry's video tutorials to create a nice RBG image of NGC2903 and a Luminosity image, which is a good deal brighter.

I want to layer in the color over the Luminosity... I think I know quite well how to do this in Photoshop.  No matter what settings on the Lightness/Saturation sliders I use, I get no color over the luminosity in PI... is the color just took weak or what... have followed the tutorial twice.... seems to be falling off a log when Harry does it....

The only difference which I have been doing is not to try the Histogram Trabnsformation before :RGB combo since I believe if I do that I go non-linear and I am not sure if the RGBL combination will work then.  Seems safer in linear format.  I'll try it as am a bit despirate.
Takahashi 180ED
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Offline Josh Lake

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #2 on: 2013 April 20 15:58:55 »
The basic trick is:

Go Non-Linear with both L and RGB in the same way. Apply the STF auto-stretch for each of them (even if you think they don't look perfect yet when auto-stretched) to the bottom bar of the Histogram Transformation function, then apply that to each of them (separately). Now they are compatible, usually with the histogram spiking at 1/4.

Then apply the L (L is the only one checked in LRGBCombination) to the RGB image directly. Dial the Saturation slider DOWN to increase saturation (kind of like moving a midtones slider down). Don't touch the Lightness slider, leave it at 0.5.

I know this is essentially Vicent's trick on the video -- you've tried all this and it doesn't help? If that's the case, please post some linear example files, I'd love to take a look to see what's going on.

Offline pfile

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #3 on: 2013 April 20 16:00:19 »
yes, i was just going to say that... this tool wants to be used with nonlinear images. the autoSTF trick is appropriate since it will stretch the images to similar brightness.

Offline jerryyyyy

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #4 on: 2013 April 20 16:49:16 »
I tried this one more time and failed to get it.  Is there a place I might be able to upload these miserable files so you might have a shot at them?  Looks like I am limited to 512k here.  I have a DropBox Account if you can send me a PM. 
« Last Edit: 2013 April 20 17:04:44 by jerryyyyy »
Takahashi 180ED
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Offline pfile

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #5 on: 2013 April 20 17:14:19 »
can you just put them in your dropbox public folder and post the link? or PM the link?

rob

Offline jerryyyyy

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #6 on: 2013 April 20 17:25:20 »
i sent Jake a PM.  Will send you one too to link to DropBox.
Takahashi 180ED
Astrophysics Mach1
SBIG STT-8300M and Nikon D800
PixInsight Maxim DL 6 CCDComander TheSkyX FocusMax

Offline Josh Lake

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #7 on: 2013 April 20 17:48:54 »
Juan can probably set you up with an Endor account so that you can host them right here! But Dropbox is good for now, easy enough.

BTW, it's 'jlake' for Josh Lake! No worries.  :D

Offline jerryyyyy

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #8 on: 2013 April 21 08:31:31 »
Juan can probably set you up with an Endor account so that you can host them right here! But Dropbox is good for now, easy enough.

BTW, it's 'jlake' for Josh Lake! No worries.  :D

Thanks very much Josh.  I am a novice at this but I have a ton of data I am collecting as I can go all night with an automated system.  I have been collective tons of narrow band data on M16 and will have to learn how to process that once I master the LRGB techniques.  The weakest part of the system is the C8 and focal reducer, but it does narrow band well and in my LPed area this is what I am going to focus on....

Thanks again to you and Pfile and I will go over the information you sent. 
Takahashi 180ED
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PixInsight Maxim DL 6 CCDComander TheSkyX FocusMax

Offline Josh Lake

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #9 on: 2013 April 21 11:28:39 »
Happy to help, and by all means post other problems. Troubleshooting these kinds of things reinforces and strengthens my own processing skills!

Offline jerryyyyy

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Re: LRGB oddities/inconsistencies
« Reply #10 on: 2013 April 21 17:23:21 »
Happy to help, and by all means post other problems. Troubleshooting these kinds of things reinforces and strengthens my own processing skills!

I agree with the philosophy.  I am going to review this project but also start from scratch another (the Hockey Stick).  Will report back. 
Takahashi 180ED
Astrophysics Mach1
SBIG STT-8300M and Nikon D800
PixInsight Maxim DL 6 CCDComander TheSkyX FocusMax