Author Topic: Care to share your workflow?  (Read 12033 times)

Offline swag72

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Care to share your workflow?
« on: 2012 February 26 11:37:51 »
I am having a total nightmare with PI and regardless of how many video's I watch, tutorials I read through, it's just not coming together for me. I am getting very disheartened with the processing indeed.

So, I am trying very hard to just grasp the basics of work flow - When you stretch the histogram, when you do star reduction etc. I know that one recipe doesn't fit all, but if I can just understand the workflow for a basic RGB image and get that right I stand a better chance of succeeding.

I don't want to post my latest image in the gallery as it's utter pants compared to what is there, but incase anyone wants to see my dogs dinner of a process, here it is. http://flic.kr/p/byen7e

I think I try to do TOO much, but can't seem to get anyway near anything decent, and in trying harder it all just gets worse.

I am fine on getting RGB data to one linear image, then after that it all goes very rapidly downhill. I hope someone can take just a few minutes to let me know their successful workflow so that I may one day produce something I am proud of.


Offline georg.viehoever

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #1 on: 2012 February 26 12:00:23 »
How about uploading your raw images somewhere, and making it a processing contest?
Georg (6 inch Newton, unmodified Canon EOS40D+80D, unguided EQ5 mount)

Offline swag72

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #2 on: 2012 February 26 12:08:42 »
I don't know about a contest, but I will gladly supply links to my stacked RGB data so that people can see what they can do. Would be really great to see what people do and how - Maybe my data is not as good as I think!!

Red http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41385123/NGC3718%20Red.fit
Green http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41385123/NGC3718%20Green.fit
Blue http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41385123/NGC3718%20Blue.fit

I hope this is OK?

Offline Alejandro Tombolini

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #3 on: 2012 February 26 12:17:17 »
It is a good idea to make a try with your data

if you see at the monthly contest, some pictures have a complete work flow that is not a recipe but it will give you an orientations on the procedure.
Ex. http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=3822.msg26491#msg26491

Saludos,
Alejandro.

Offline Alejandro Tombolini

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #4 on: 2012 February 26 14:26:21 »
Well, it's the best I could do. Attachment processes were applied in that order.

Saludos. Alejandro.


Offline Harry page

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #5 on: 2012 February 26 14:34:17 »
Hi

Thats a good effort  :-*

I had a quick look and don't think there is any more there , I would have thought that there might be more data for the amount of exsposure !!!

Regards Harry
Harry Page

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #6 on: 2012 February 26 16:20:40 »
Hi Sara,

Quote
I think I try to do TOO much, but can't seem to get anyway near anything decent, and in trying harder it all just gets worse.

Your analysis is correct IMO. The main problem is that you're trying to get too much from the data. You have data to make a decent image, but not enough signal to achieve the result you want, especially in terms of color saturation.

Below is my try applying very basic steps, plus a final trick (I am against tricky processing in general, but I've made an exception this one time).

Step 1. Alignment of the individual RGB channel images.


Step 2. Combine the three channels as a RGB color image. Use STF AutoStretch to inspect the linear image.


Step 3. Gradient removal with AutomaticBackgroundExtractor (ABE).



Step 4. Fix residual gradients with DynamicBackgroundExtraction (DBE).



Step 5. Neutralize the background.


Step 6. Set a plausible white balance to maximize information representation (aka color calibration). The white reference is the integrated light from the main galaxy.


Step 7. Make a noise reduction mask: Extract a brightness component (I channel of HSI in this case) and make it nonlinear.



Step 8. Noise reduction with MultiscaleMedianTransform, with the mask of step 7 enabled. Trick: don't stretch the image too much with STF. Just be realistic and stretch it moderately with low signal data.



Step 9. Adjust the mask to control noise reduction. The problem: With low-signal data noise reduction has to be applied at large scales; otherwise the background gets filled with the typical 'blotches', as a result of surviving large-scale noise structures. However, too strong of a noise reduction leads to a 'washed' background with an artificial plastic look. The real solution: Gather more data. A tricky solution: Force a minimum mask value with PixelMath. In this way you get the noise only partially removed at all scales (i.e. noise reduction, not noise suppression).



Step 10. Nonlinear stretch.


Step 11. Now the really tricky part: Selective noise addition. Important note: I don't like or recommend this procedure, in general. I have implemented it in this example because it yields a good result from an aesthetic point of view, given the lack of signal in the original data. This procedure is borderline of bad practice. The idea is simple: add a moderate amount of synthetic Gaussian noise on the background (with mask protection) to replace artificial looking noise with a 'nice and smooth' noise distribution.




Step 12. Color saturation enhancement. A lightness mask has been used to protect the background.


Step 13. The final result after applying SCNR with default parameters to remove residual green noise.


I think the result is very decent. After just a few easy steps (with the exception of the noise addition trick), The image is colorful, the noise is under control, and some nice details can be seen in the galaxies. Not bad for that orange Olocau sky :) I hope this contributes to remove most of your disheartenment ;)
Juan Conejero
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Offline mmirot

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #7 on: 2012 February 26 18:11:37 »
Please expand on how the mask modification is done with pixel math.

Thanks

Max


Offline swag72

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #8 on: 2012 February 27 00:05:36 »
This is excellent to see and I will work through these steps to achieve, I hope, a better image. Would you say that in general this is a good order to do the processing?

Excellent link to the monthly competition - More good ideas. So more data needed - RGB or luminance? I ask as I have 5 hours of Luminance sat on the hard drive!!

THank you so much for taking the time to do this.

Offline swag72

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #9 on: 2012 February 27 00:15:28 »
Hi

Thats a good effort  :-*

I had a quick look and don't think there is any more there , I would have thought that there might be more data for the amount of exsposure !!!

Regards Harry

I would have thought there would be more data too - Do you think it's just that it's a feint target or is it my data collection? There is over 10 hours there.

Offline Herbert_W

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #10 on: 2012 February 27 01:44:54 »
Hi Juan!

Thank you for sharing your detailed workflow for all of us - it is astonishing, to see your idea with the noisy background.
Actually a crazy idea - but it works very well.

Best regards.
Herbert, Austria

Offline Giorgio

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #11 on: 2012 February 27 05:48:06 »
Thanks Juan,
I always wondered how to use the noisegenerator. :-[
Giorgio

Offline mmirot

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #12 on: 2012 February 27 08:00:13 »

Juan,

At step 9,
Did you apply NR a second time with a second modified mask?

Or did you just go back /  revert the image then modify the mask and apply NR( one pass )?

What does the Pixel math step do to image ?
Make the background more transparent?

Could n't this be done by adjusting the mask with the histogram tool too?

Max


Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #13 on: 2012 February 27 08:45:35 »
Hi Max,

Quote
At step 9,
Did you apply NR a second time with a second modified mask?

No, I went back (Image > Undo) and applied MMT with the modified mask. Only one MMT application.

Quote
What does the Pixel math step do to image ?

The PixelMath expression is:

max( 0.2, $T )

This forces the mask to have a minimum value of 0.2 in the [0,1] range. Bear in mind that this mask is being used with inversion, so 0.2 is actually 0.8 as seen by the image. Before this operation, the mask had minimum values close to zero (seen as 1.0) on the background. The purpose of this operation is to make the mask more opaque in a perfectly constant and regular way. Since the mask is more opaque, the noise reduction will be applied partially, or in other words, a part of the original background will be mixed with the denoised background.

Quote
Could n't this be done by adjusting the mask with the histogram tool too?

Yes, of course. But PixelMath is easier and IMO more controllable in this case.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline mmirot

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Re: Care to share your workflow?
« Reply #14 on: 2012 February 27 09:19:34 »
I noticed the S value and Adaptive Values are applied less and less agressively with each successive layer with the MultiscaleMedianTransform. I suspect this is pretty common with most images and the magitude choosen is often a good starting point.

I was never sure what the adaptive parameter does. Can you expand on this?

Btw, We need a special place for some of these wonderful posts that you and other give us.
I am flagging this one and few others recently on my favorites list.

Thanks

Again

Max