Author Topic: PI and MaxImDL ADU Values  (Read 17662 times)

Offline pfile

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Re: PI and MaxImDL ADU Values
« Reply #15 on: 2011 February 26 16:13:34 »
I wonder of the effect the bloomed area being substituted with the shorter exposure would be like? The signal would certainly be lower than the rest of the bloomed image. How many "shorter, non bloomed" images would it require to fill the bloomed area satisfactorily? The idea of rotating a square CCD array 90 degrees is great if you have a square array and a guide star at both rotated positions. Having used 24" RCs in the past I could image unguided for several minutes and this would have been no issue but with a 12.5" f/9 system, not nearly as many photons being collected in that short period of time.

I should note that de-blooming a stacked image has way too many artifacts left compared to each being de-bloomed using the de-blooming software. Using the mask method Juan is referring to may have a different outcome. I'll upload the needed frames and see what Juan can suggest shortly.

yeah, in fact i went back to LB-0001 to try and take some 90 (or 270) degree images of the horsehead nebula and found that i could not get a guide star at that angle. i had to settle for something like 70 degrees... but then the seeing was poor and my subs were pretty crappy. so i have not made any progress on this project. i'm not sure if i want to try and integrate a bunch of 70 degree subs and reject the blooming as outliers, or simply copy the data over from a few stacked subs. anyway that's why i'm interested in the masking technique.

i've never used a 'synthetic' debloomer but i can see how it might choke on a stacked image, as the intensity of the bloomed area is going to vary, assuming the blooming is slightly different in each sub.

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: PI and MaxImDL ADU Values
« Reply #16 on: 2011 February 27 12:22:48 »
Here is a small tutorial showing how to replace bloomings with Steve's images.

First we open both images and set identifiers to facilitate subsequent work: with_bloomings is the 32-bit floating point linear integrated image with bloomings; debloomed is the 16-bit linear image where bloomings have been fixed with a debloomer software tool in other application.

The first step is building a blooming replacement mask. We duplicate the with_bloomings image and rename it to blooming_mask.

The next screenshot shows the three images with active screen transfer functions applied.


Bloomings are very easy to isolate in a linear image because they consist of nearly saturated pixels. A simple PixelMath expression:

$T > 0.85

allows us to generate a binary mask where pixels are white over bloomings; black elsewhere. The 0.85 cutting value has been found after a couple tries. Usually a value between 0.8 and 0.9 is appropriate. The resulting mask is shown below.


Bloomings usually have a 1-2 pixel border formed by dimmer pixels, and this case isn't an exception. That forces us to expand the mask slightly in order to perform a complete blooming replacement. This can be done very easily with a dilation filter, as shown below.


The next step is smoothing the mask to prevent any hard transitions. Removing the first two wavelet layers acts like a low-pass filter and does just what we want. Note that the mask in the screenshot below has no STF applied.


Now the mask (blooming_mask) must be activated over the 32-bit image. As can be seen on the screenshot below, I've been perhaps too conservative. Instead of a 7-pixel dilation filter a 5-pixel filter might be sufficient. Anyway a slightly larger mask is better to ensure that no blooming residuals will be left in the combined image.


Finally a (masked)  minimum operation between with_bloomings and debloomed yields the combined result. The PixelMath expression is:

min( $T, debloomed )

and must be applied to with_bloomings with rescaling disabled and blooming_mask as the active mask.


It is important to point out that exactly the same procedure can be used to replace bloomings with real data from a shorter exposure. In this case, as Robert has noted, the LinearFit tool should be used to adapt background and signal levels between both images (large-exposure image with bloomings and short-exposure image without bloomings). After blooming replacement, the regions that have been replaced with short-exposure data will have lower SNR. The same mask can be used to apply a selective noise reduction with wavelets, which will fix this collateral problem perfectly. This is the recommended way to fix blooming artifacts.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline RBA

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Re: PI and MaxImDL ADU Values
« Reply #17 on: 2011 February 27 16:27:49 »
debloomed is the 16-bit linear image where bloomings have been fixed with a debloomer software tool in other application.

Weren't you working on a deblooming tool? I recall Vicent saying something about that a while ago. I could be wrong...
Not everyone has square shaped ccds :-)


Offline pfile

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Re: PI and MaxImDL ADU Values
« Reply #18 on: 2011 February 27 17:26:06 »
i think further back up the thread Juan said he put that on the back burner...

Offline sreilly

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Re: PI and MaxImDL ADU Values
« Reply #19 on: 2011 March 02 11:57:34 »

Yes, short exposures are the only option IMHO. Bloomings must be fixed through observational techniques. Any software deblooming tool works by guessing unavailable data, basically in the same way you would guess them using a clone stamp tool, but in an automatic way instead of manual. Although I agree that software solutions to bloomings can be useful, they are the worst way to deal with this problem. For this reason, we stopped some R+D lines that we had started in 2010 to create a deblooming tool in PixInsight; we decided to focus our (always scarce) resources on more important and priority topics, at least temporarily.


This is the current status on this project.
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline sreilly

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Re: PI and MaxImDL ADU Values
« Reply #20 on: 2011 March 02 12:00:26 »
Here is a small tutorial showing how to replace bloomings with Steve's images.


Thanks Juan.

I haven't had much time to explore this but tried to follow along twice and ended up with a white outline of the blooms. I didn't want to let time pass and forget to thank Juan for the time and effort in this tutorial. I'll be working with it more in the next few days to see how this resolves.

Steve
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5