Author Topic: Once and for all: Color profile problem  (Read 4675 times)

Offline Emanuele

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Once and for all: Color profile problem
« on: 2010 October 07 05:33:04 »
Hi all.

I know I have posted this in the past but I am still having problems with color profiles, and I really need to solve this, as my images are actually not coming out as I want.

So here it is:
I process the image with my normal workflow (I dont assign an RGBWorkingSpace in the workflow)
When I decide that my image is ready for deployment on the web, I assign the sRGV v4 ICC profile to the image. Then I resize and save as jpg.

Then I open the image in a browser or Photoshop and the background is clipped and the colors are darker - way darker. You can check the M33 and M31 image on my website, which in PI appear to have a good background.

Also, whenever I click on Enable Color Proofing - then image becomes lighter in color.

Here's a screenshot of the color management window - what is wrong in it? 

Offline Emanuele

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Re: Once and for all: Color profile problem
« Reply #1 on: 2010 October 07 05:35:59 »
Also, for Grayscale images - such as Ha or Lum only images - is the sRGB v4 ICC the right one?

When I embed the sRGB v4 ICC profile in the image, and then open it up in Photoshop, it tells me that it cannot open the image because the profile it has embedded is not recognized.


Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: Once and for all: Color profile problem
« Reply #2 on: 2010 October 07 06:26:10 »
Hi Emanuele,

I have had a quick look at M31 and M33 from your website (using IE8 on XP32 on an un-calibrated HP 22" monitor) and I didn't really see any problems.

When you are looking at them from your own website - what browser are you using?

I will also need to look at the problem once I am back at my main PI machine (tonight, maybe?) - and compare behaviours using other available machines at the same time.
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC

Offline Emanuele

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Re: Once and for all: Color profile problem
« Reply #3 on: 2010 October 07 06:48:53 »
Thanks for your help Nial.

I am using a Macbook Pro, with Safari and Firefox.

I am attaching the histogram of my M33 that is on the website.
It wasn't clipped in PI.

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Once and for all: Color profile problem
« Reply #4 on: 2010 October 07 08:05:28 »
Hi Emanuele,

There's nothing wrong with your color management setup in PixInsight. Just something that you should probably change: the rendering intent for your screen profile should be perceptual instead of relative colorimetric (it doesn't make too much sense trying to match the white point of a monitor profile). However, this is not a practical problem at all.

Come on with the things that you may be doing wrong:

- If your image is a grayscale image in PixInsight, then don't embed a sRGB profile when you export it to other applications. PixInsight supports both grayscale and RGB color profiles embedded in grayscale images, but this is a nonstandard PixInsight feature, not supported by other applications.

- Never embed an ICC profile in any image for web deployment. Even web browsers supporting color management don't produce valid color renditions of images with embedded ICC profiles (e.g., Firefox). Always leave your web images untagged (no ICC profile embedded) and be sure their pixels are meaningful in the sRGB color space. To achieve this goal, follow these rules:

* If your default RGB (or grayscale) profile is sRGB (as it is in your case), then do nothing. Just save your images as they are and (as they are intended for web deloyment) be sure not to embed an ICC profile.

* If your default RGB (or grayscale) profile is not sRGB, then before saving your images for web deployment, use the ICCProfileTransformation tool (ColorManagement category) to convert them to the sRGB space. Again, be sure you don't embed the sRGB profile (nor any other) when you save your images.

- To maximize the chances of your images being seen correctly on the WWW, try to avoid too dark backgrounds. Many people tend to have too low brightness settings, and most cheap monitors are poor at reproducing detail in the shadows. As a general rule, for a deep sky image the main histogram peak should be around 0.1 or 0.12, roughly.

- As a general recommendation, avoid embedding ICC Version 4 profiles in your images, as not all applications support them yet. For compatibility, better embed ICC V2 profiles. This is not a big issue though, as PixInsight fully supports ICC V4 and, why use other applications? :cheesy:

- Always bear in mind that implementing color management on the WWW is an extremely difficult task, if not a completely impossible task. Following the above recommendations is about everything you can do to ensure your images will be seen as they are intended to be seen, but even then, a lot of people won't see your images as you expect, and a fraction of them will see your images horribly. We have to live with this, at least for now.

Hope this helps.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline Emanuele

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Re: Once and for all: Color profile problem
« Reply #5 on: 2010 October 07 12:00:05 »
Juan,
I thank you very much for your help and most of all for your endured patience! :)
I will follow your suggestions on this.


Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: Once and for all: Color profile problem
« Reply #6 on: 2010 October 07 23:53:33 »
Hi Emanuele,

Well - Juan (as usual) has said far more than I could have said, and so I have nothing to add ;) Instead, I have taken notes of what Juan DID actually say - because I know it will help ME in the future as well!

As usual, thanks Juan
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC