Author Topic: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team  (Read 12340 times)

Offline Juan Conejero

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Congratulations to Vicent Peris, Jack Harvey, Steven Mazlin, José Luis Lamadrid and the rest of the DSA team for their wonderful image of the ring nebula. It has been officially released today at Calar Alto's website:

http://www.caha.es/the-ring-nebula.html

Don't forget to scroll down the page and click on the links to download the full-size JPEG and TIFF versions.

I personally know how this image has been made, step-by-step from its very beginnings to what you can see on the release above. In my opinion, this image is a neat example of excellency in astrophotography: excellent observation planning, excellent acquisition, and excellent image processing.

This image is also exemplary in that it represents a way of understanding astrophotography based on evolving technological and aesthetic culture, along with a strictly respectful attitude toward the nature of the data. You can be sure that what you see here is only a representation of data from the objects photographed. In particular, in this image you'll find:

- No hand painting.

- No hand masking.

- No manipulations of shape or color on arbitrary selections, neither hand-made, nor without coherent, uniform criteria applied on the basis of fundamental properties of the data. Selective processing has been applied as a function of signal-to-noise ratio, spatial scale, and spectral properties of the data.

- No cosmetic repairs that can compromise integrity of visible image structures, or that require guessing unavailable data to the point of arbitrary creation of nonexistent image structures.

In short, this is just astrophotography, and I want to say thanks for that.
« Last Edit: 2009 November 02 02:33:09 by Juan Conejero »
Juan Conejero
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Offline Nocturnal

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #1 on: 2009 November 02 06:12:22 »
Congratulations to everyone involved!
Best,

    Sander
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Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #2 on: 2009 November 03 00:10:17 »
Simply stunning,

Now, what I would like to see is a video tutorial showing each of the PI processes being applied, step by step, letting us poor novices see how the 'big guns' work.

Any takers?

You guys did record ALL of your 'history' steps, didn't you  ??? ::)

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
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Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #3 on: 2009 November 03 00:36:44 »
Quote
You guys did record ALL of your 'history' steps, didn't you

Hmmm, I'm not too sure about that...  ;D

Vicent is right now writing a document where he describes the general procedures he has implemented to process this image. He'll publish it on PixInsight Blogs, probably today.

I can tell you that working with professional telescopes is very difficult. Some people (or many, probably) may think that images like this one are easy to achieve with telescope apertures of 1.23 and 3.5 meters. Nothing farther from reality. Take into account that there are many gigabytes of data into this image, acquired remotely during 21 hours of exposure with six filters (Ha, OIII, H2, R, G, B) and extremely complex instruments. For example, to control the 1.23 remotely, one needs several Telnet connections, a virtual desktop operating on two different remote computers, and another connection to control a dedicated guiding/pointing computer. Funny but very, very stressing I can say.

Besides acquisition, images taken with professional cameras and telescopes pose very difficult problems not found with amateur instruments. The entire calibration of these 21 hours of data has been carried out manually with PixelMath, ImageContainer and several scripts. But better I'll let Vicent talk about all this stuff.
Juan Conejero
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Offline David Serrano

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #4 on: 2009 November 03 01:15:47 »
The entire calibration of these 21 hours of data has been carried out manually with PixelMath, ImageContainer and several scripts. But better I'll let Vicent talk about all this stuff.

Hell yes!!
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Offline Astrocava

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #5 on: 2009 November 03 09:13:44 »
Fantastic image! Waiting for the processing in-depth explanation.

Have you seen how many faint galaxies are in that image? :surprised:

Sergio
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Offline h0ughy

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #6 on: 2009 November 03 16:04:33 »
I am in awe of how it was produced and the result is simply stunning.  the background galaxies are amazing.  i saw a shot of this area some time back when a comet (not sure which one) came close to it.  I saw the small galaxy to the right for the first time, no idea it was there until that shot.  But the shear depth of the field is breathtaking and the extents of m57
Doghouse Observatory

Offline vicent_peris

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #7 on: 2009 November 04 07:31:42 »
Hi all,

thanks you very much for your kind words. I have written a post at PixInsight Blogs (http://pixinsight.com/blogs/?p=152), as well in DSA's blog (http://astro-photographer.org/blog/?p=13). As I say in the DSA's blog, this is our first serious work. We are very happy to start doing real astrophotography with these professional telescopes.

It's really informative the direct comparison between our image and the HST one. You will see what we're achieving in terms of resolution.

Also I think this is a unique image because it shows at the same time many aspects of the object: the five band visual light, the infrared H2 emission line, and the whole compressed dynamic range. And, the best of all is that all these data are present in a single RGB image.


Hope you are enjoying this photo, as this has been a huge effor for the whole team.
Best regards,
Vicent.

Offline LD

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #8 on: 2009 November 04 08:41:58 »
Great art and science are united in one goal--they expose you to a new way of looking at some part of our universe. After looking at this image I can say that I will never see M57 the same way I did yesterday. I think what you are accomplishing is truly both art and science of the highest eye-opening, mind-blowing, awe-inspiring kind.

Thanks for sharing it. And thanks in advance for sharing the methods so we can all tease a bit more out of our own Rings.

Regards,
Larry



Offline Nocturnal

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #9 on: 2009 November 04 09:37:29 »
I took a look at the PI blog about the processing. From what I read the calibration procedure was rather straightforward and could have been done with DSS with less effort than using PixelMath. At least the employed formula is completely standard "($T – bias)*Avg(flat)/flat", assuming the flat is really (flat - dark flat) or (flat - bias). I only mention this because Juan rather dramatically stated "images taken with professional cameras and telescopes pose very difficult problems not found with amateur instruments." That may be true but I'd like to understand it a little better. I would hope that mega-cooled cameras on mountain tops from 1m+ scopes would deliver much better data that's easier to calibrate than what I can obtain from my front yard. Otherwise what's the point?

We could have a little contest to see what others can come up with with the raw data or the linear combined RGB image :)
Best,

    Sander
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Offline vicent_peris

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #10 on: 2009 November 05 04:13:27 »
Hello,

I have updated my post at PixInsight Blog with a better explanation of the deconvolution process. It includes some nice 3D graphs.  O0

Sander, I will reply you later.


Regards,
Vicent.
« Last Edit: 2009 November 05 08:29:08 by vicent_peris »

Offline vicent_peris

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #11 on: 2009 November 05 11:25:18 »
Hi again,

just posted some FAQs to better understand this picture. Please read them here: http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=1517.msg8205.


Best regards,
Vicent.

Offline caliu

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #12 on: 2009 November 05 12:01:03 »
¿Porque os empeñais en escribir solo en inglés?, habemos algunos que no sabemos ni papa y me parece una discriminación injusta.

Offline David Serrano

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #13 on: 2009 November 07 02:08:55 »
¿Porque os empeñais en escribir solo en inglés?, habemos algunos que no sabemos ni papa y me parece una discriminación injusta.

Calquer lingua é discriminatoria, mais algunhas son máis discriminatorias que outras.
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Offline Carlos Milovic

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Re: M57 with Calar Alto Observatory 1.23 m Telescope by the DSA Team
« Reply #14 on: 2009 November 09 11:17:06 »
Ja wohl. Wir muss in Inglisch gesprachen, als es ist das Welte spräche heute. ;)

La respuesta es la misma de siempre... lo queramos o no, el inglés es el idioma que más barreras nos ayuda a derribar en el mundo de hoy, permitiendo la comunicación entre personas de diferentes culturas. Lamentablemente, no hay otro sustituto (ya que el latín es una lengua muerta, y pese a que hay más hablantes del chino... pues, no es de mucha ayuda :D ). Si estás dispuesto a aceptar un consejo: métete a un curso de ingles. No porque aquí se habla preferentemente, sino porque ahí afuera existe una montaña de información mucho más grande en inglés que en español, y no puedes permitirte quedar fuera. El límite lo pones tú.
Regards,

Carlos Milovic F.
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