Author Topic: Some unfair comments  (Read 14954 times)

Offline Juan Conejero

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Some unfair comments
« on: 2019 December 18 09:26:14 »
Hi all,

We have recently been informed about the proliferation of a series of comments on various social networks and forums about the latest versions of PixInsight that we have published, and especially about the just-released 1.8.8-3 version.

The comments in question come to say that we do not properly test the new versions that we publish, and that we release them with the intention that our users test our software so that they do the job of detecting bugs and issues instead of us.

Not only are all of these comments completely wrong, but they denote an absolute lack of understanding about what PixInsight is and what this project has been representing for more than 15 years. PixInsight is professional software development. This is neither a hobby nor a game for us; it is our very hard daily work, where we invest a very significant part of our existence. If someone thinks that we really do that, we invite him or her to use other products in the market instead of PixInsight, since they will surely seem much better and much better developed.

Besides that, these comments bother me a lot, personally, because for more than a year we have intensified our work even more, striving very hard and giving our best to make PixInsight a stable and powerful platform with an extraordinary potential of future development on four operating systems. I am very proud of the work done recently, not just by me, but also by a bunch of great developers and fine persons, who are contributing their fantastic work for free, so this kind of comment is particularly painful. We test every new version we release in the most comprehensive and intense way possible with our available resources on all supported platforms. If we make mistakes or some problems go unnoticed, we apologize for that and you can be sure that it is not because we have not tried to do our best to solve or detect them.

Other comments imply that we should release new versions less frequently, in order to test them more, instead of causing problems to our users.

These comments denote lack of understanding of what modern software development actually is, particularly for a dynamic project like PixInsight, which is evolving quickly and constantly, and which provides powerful open-source development frameworks to incorporate numerous contributions of collaborators and third-party developers. The people who contribute their scripts and modules are undoubtedly our best asset, and deserve all our effort to provide them with the best tools we can offer. Once more, this is professional software development, so we know very well when a new version is necessary. We do not release a new version because we want to try out new things, but because we are completely sure that the new version will make PixInsight more useful, more stable and efficient, and more enjoyable to all of our users. We are not perfect so we make mistakes, and our mistakes usually cause problems, but those who know us know that we always try to do our best to solve them as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Thank you for your attention.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline astroedo

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #1 on: 2019 December 18 10:12:21 »
Thank you Juan fot these clarifications.

I've re-published your post on our Facebook Group (I don't know if you have a facebook profile, but here's the link).

https://www.facebook.com/groups/959090060876536/permalink/2670939369691588/

Clear skies

Edoardo

Offline Sedat

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #2 on: 2019 December 18 12:10:50 »
I don't know who these are but please be sure that the majority of the PI clan are feeling very lucky to have you, Vicent and all the other kind people who are devoting a big chunk of their lives to this project.

The naysayers will always be but don't let them pull your spirit down.

Sedat

Offline dave_galera

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #3 on: 2019 December 18 13:03:48 »
I don't know who these are but please be sure that the majority of the PI clan are feeling very lucky to have you, Vicent and all the other kind people who are devoting a big chunk of their lives to this project.

The naysayers will always be but don't let them pull your spirit down.

+1 from me
Dave

Offline Ruediger

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #4 on: 2019 December 18 23:44:44 »
Dear Juan,

Let me drop my 2 cents as being a SW professional myself: Do not get bothered about these people. These people do not know anything about running such a complex SW project. Very often they are frustrated because they cannot catch up with rapid development process. The simple answer is: If it is too fast for you, or you are afraid of (new) bugs stay with your old version and skip some newer versions. And if this is not an option for them: Please feel free to use any other SW. You are not tight to any tool. You can decide.
And everyone should be aware of: No releases, no improvements.
Personally I am happy to download and install any new version, since I know there is something great to test and use which makes my images better. Best example WBPP

Let me assure that the majority of users is not represented by this complaining minority.

Hang on!
CS
Ruediger

Offline astroedo

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #5 on: 2019 December 18 23:56:17 »
My 2 cents too:

Juan have you ever considered to create a moderately vast group of "competent" beta testers with a wide range of machine and configurations? (maybe it already exists and I don't know  :D ).
Obviously working on a voluntary basis, screaming "FOR THE GLORY!!!"   :D :D :D ;)  ;)  ;)

This will make development slower, it's clear, but the "risk" for common user would be mitigated.

Offline John_Gill

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #6 on: 2019 December 19 00:19:21 »
Hi,

I would gladly be a "beta tester"

space is not black
John
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Offline astroedo

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #7 on: 2019 December 19 00:21:55 »
Hi,

I would gladly be a "beta tester"

space is not black
John

Me too, it's clear  ;)

Offline Ruediger

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #8 on: 2019 December 19 01:56:06 »
My 2 cents too:

Juan have you ever considered to create a moderately vast group of "competent" beta testers with a wide range of machine and configurations? (maybe it already exists and I don't know  :D ).
Obviously working on a voluntary basis, screaming "FOR THE GLORY!!!"   :D :D :D ;)  ;)  ;)

This will make development slower, it's clear, but the "risk" for common user would be mitigated.

I think that would be difficult. You need a huge group of testers to cover a significant amount of combinations of hardware, OS and also users skills. Compared to to the amount of PI users in total this would require a big portion. And I doubt that a small group would seriously improve error level, since the obvious bug are crunched in internal testing.

But anyway: To release pre-release Betas for field test could calm the critical voices.
CS
Ruediger

Offline vega41

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #9 on: 2019 December 19 03:40:01 »
I wanted to solve the problem drastically by formatting the hard drive and reinstalling win10 and pixinsight. All the problems I had were solved!
The PC was a bit clogged with various programs and procedures and I think win10 went haywire.
Thanks

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #10 on: 2019 December 19 10:41:05 »
Hi all,

Thank you so much for your support and encouragement!

Quote
I think that would be difficult. You need a huge group of testers to cover a significant amount of combinations of hardware, OS and also users skills. Compared to to the amount of PI users in total this would require a big portion. And I doubt that a small group would seriously improve error level, since the obvious bug are crunched in internal testing.

Yes, things are that difficult for a large and complex project like PixInsight.

Anyway, I'm going to think on your advice of releasing public betas, or release candidate versions. This would probably increase the involvement of our users in PixInsight as a dynamic development project. I'll think on how to implement this.

Quote
I wanted to solve the problem drastically by formatting the hard drive and reinstalling win10 and pixinsight. All the problems I had were solved!

Now that's the attitude! ;)
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline mschuster

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #11 on: 2019 December 19 11:05:45 »
Anyway, I'm going to think on your advice of releasing public betas, or release candidate versions. This would probably increase the involvement of our users in PixInsight as a dynamic development project. I'll think on how to implement this.

Thanks Juan. If possible, please allow installation of candidate without removal of the prior working version. To allow for testing, yet still be able to easily switch to the prior version to get work done if necessary.

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #12 on: 2019 December 19 11:13:05 »
Hi Mike,

Anyway, I'm going to think on your advice of releasing public betas, or release candidate versions. This would probably increase the involvement of our users in PixInsight as a dynamic development project. I'll think on how to implement this.

Thanks Juan. If possible, please allow installation of candidate without removal of the prior working version. To allow for testing, yet still be able to easily switch to the prior version to get work done if necessary.

Interesting. Ideally we should have the possibility to perform a side-by-side installation. This is not possible right now. The main problem is the way application settings are being generated and stored, but it is doable. Thank you for the idea.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline Ruediger

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #13 on: 2019 December 19 13:02:39 »
Hi Mike,

Anyway, I'm going to think on your advice of releasing public betas, or release candidate versions. This would probably increase the involvement of our users in PixInsight as a dynamic development project. I'll think on how to implement this.

Thanks Juan. If possible, please allow installation of candidate without removal of the prior working version. To allow for testing, yet still be able to easily switch to the prior version to get work done if necessary.

Interesting. Ideally we should have the possibility to perform a side-by-side installation. This is not possible right now. The main problem is the way application settings are being generated and stored, but it is doable. Thank you for the idea.

But I think there is some crucial points to consider: When using a side by side installation (which I is a good idea in my point of view) most users want to use there existing settings. They do not want to re-configure everything. So you have to clone the settings during install process or at least to ask.

Also the users who want to update there installation in place instead of having a side-by-side installation have to remain the chance to migrate there settings.

I thinks this needs some brainstorming because there are some use cases to consider in order to avoid collateral damage - and again complaints.
CS
Ruediger

Offline astroedo

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Re: Some unfair comments
« Reply #14 on: 2019 December 20 03:18:05 »


I thinks this needs some brainstorming because there are some use cases to consider in order to avoid collateral damage - and again complaints.

I'd use the rule: you're a beta tester? so NO COMPLAIN!!!   
Only feedback!

 ;) ;) ;)