Author Topic: star masking for HDR  (Read 21290 times)

Offline dhalliday

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star masking for HDR
« on: 2009 June 30 14:42:51 »
Is there a link to a tutorial on this? Without is (so far) HDR (or maybe it is unsharp) is bloating my stars +++
I have generated star masks (stars look mighty big though...)
when I "apply it" to my image, M57 dissappears... :surprised:
I am missing something ( a lot actually) I realize
PS still cannot seem to properly delete 1.4....when I "install" 1.5 it goes screwy...
any hot tips?

hopeless,in Ottawa
« Last Edit: 2009 June 30 15:55:13 by dhalliday »
Dave Halliday
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Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #1 on: 2009 June 30 15:54:26 »
OK...answering my own question,partly...you apply an inverted star mask.......who knew ??? :o

trouble is,none of the masks I am generating make my stars "hide" 100 %
how do we OPTIMIZE the mask ???
when we do unsharp is star masking needed (since a mask already exists ???)
I know there must be a clever trick to this.....
Dave Halliday
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Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #2 on: 2009 July 01 07:58:30 »
I am having a great chat with myself...(who listens better ? :)

I have now played around a bit with the (inverted) star masks,and I can generally "make" one that hides my stars close to 100 % ...so I am happier...
Still,I am looking for help to have a more sophisticated (quicker) way to automatically set up "star mask" to give me a 100& effective mask...

thanks
Dave Halliday
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Offline mmirot

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #3 on: 2009 July 01 09:04:24 »
1 The smoothing factor in the mask tool makes bigger stars. 

2 You can also adjust the strength of mask using tools, histogram and curves.
3 fatten stars with wavelets using negative bias.

TIP. Do these functions on a open mask image.
If it is selected on your target images then the effects are immediately visible.
Just hit undo if you don't like what you see.

Max

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #4 on: 2009 July 01 09:20:28 »
Hi Dave,

Sorry for being unresponsive. These days I'm working like crazy trying to get PI 1.5.5 ready for release. With some difficult bugs and all the new features, I'm having a hard time trying to keep myself synchronized with the forum.

As you already have discovered, a mask protects where it is black, so you indeed need an inverted mask (black stars, light background) to protect your stars.

Building a good star mask is in general a difficult task that requires a lot of practice. This is probably one of the most complex topics of image processing in astrophotography. We have a number of tutorials that can help you. First an entry-level example:

http://pixinsight.com/examples/intro/dbosch-ha/en.html

In the above tutorial, skip to section "5.1 Star Mask", where the author describes a simple but effective method for star mask generation based on wavelets.

Here's a similar but more sophisticated technique (skip to "Controlling Star Sizes: Morphological Transformations"):

http://pixinsight.com/examples/M45-sonnenstein/en.html

To the purpose of controlling stars during HDRWT, I think you have enough power with these wavelet-based star mask generation techniques. Along with these, we have the StarMask tool. StarMask allows you to select virtually every star in your image, but it is a complex tool. I describe it in this tutorial:

http://pixinsight.com/examples/deconvolution/Gemini-NGC5189/en.html

Skip to "Section 7, The StarMask Process", where you'll find a thorough description of this tool with examples. As I've said this is a complex tool, but it is much more accurate and flexible than wavelet-based techniques.

If you want, you can upload your image and I'll be happy to try my hand at building a star mask for you. This can be a helpful example for all forum members.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #5 on: 2009 July 01 10:18:57 »
Thanks to you both!!

I don't think I am quite ready to upload any images...I am shy :-[
(gotta love these emoticons...)
I will look into all of that...
 Dave
Dave Halliday
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Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #6 on: 2009 July 01 10:56:59 »
Dave,

Please don't be 'shy' - it is PRECISELY 'your kind of images' that are often best suited to be the subject of a tutorial, or worked example. I often question the validity of a worked example based on image data that I would be pleased to get when I was FINISHED my processing  ;D

And, another thing, if you are not that happy with your data, even if that is justifiably the case, someone may just chip in with that helpful hint that you have been missing, and suddenly your 'basic' data gets better.

And, finally, we were ALL 'shy' once upon a time. I still am. You don't see many images from me posted ANYWHERE  ::)

Just remember there is only one 'image policeman' on this site ( :police: ) - and we all ignore him all the time !

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
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Offline Cheyenne

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #7 on: 2009 July 01 12:13:33 »
ditto on not being shy on posting "not so perfect" images

Seeing how others can process an image can be a very educational experience.  It can help lead to better tutorials.

Cheyenne Wills
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Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #8 on: 2009 July 02 09:58:08 »
OK...lets say I did want to "post" an image...how does that work ???
Do I have to put it in a file storage site (as a 60MB tif ?) or what? where do I post the link ?
I do not have a real web page just a photo sharing site (5MB limit/file)
As usual,I am techno-impaired here...

It is my first time...be gentle  ;)


Dave
« Last Edit: 2009 July 03 13:41:11 by dhalliday »
Dave Halliday
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Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #9 on: 2009 July 03 14:26:08 »
I am still waiting on info re;how to upload an image...

Meanwhile...those tutorials look complex !!!!
Is there a simpler one...ie "star masks for dummies"...?

Someone mentioned using an "open mask"...so that the effect of modifying the mask could be "easily seen"...

Obviously this would be helpful....Currently I apply my (crude) mask by dragging the identifier onto my primary image...to remove I click on the top..."remove mask"...is this wrong?

thanks
Dave Halliday
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Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #10 on: 2009 July 03 14:58:49 »
Hi Dave,

Feel free to upload your images to our anonymous FTP account:

host: ftp.pixinsight.com
username: anonymous
password: anonymous@pixinsight.com

Once logged in, you'll see an "incoming" folder. Upload your image to "incoming" and let me know when it's ready; I'll get it and will try to build a star mask for you. Preferably, compress your image as a ZIP file before uploading.

For security reasons, after uploading a file to the incoming folder you won't see it (incoming is a write-only folder to keep it out of sight from hackers). However it will be there.

Quote
Currently I apply my (crude) mask by dragging the identifier onto my primary image...to remove I click on the top..."remove mask"...is this wrong?

Nothing wrong at all; that's the standard procedure. By dragging the identifier onto my primary image I assume you mean dragging it to a free location of the view selector tray (the vertical gray column where view tabs are attached, on the left side of each image window). You can also play with enable/disable mask to see the with/without mask effect without actually removing the mask.
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #11 on: 2009 July 04 17:25:13 »
this is where my tech weak brain fails me ???

what is the link I go to/click on/web address to get to that FTP site ?

the only highlited link in yr reply is"anonymous@pixinsight.com"....which seems to invite me to send an E mail....
you have to really spell it out for this Fred Flinstone...!!!
Also I do not beleive I can create zip files...is this going to be a problem?
It takes me  about 15 minutes to upload a 50MB file.....but I am OK with this...I saved my DSS stack as a 16 bit file,and cropped it to around 30 MB....

let me know...
Dave Halliday
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Offline Harry page

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #12 on: 2009 July 05 13:21:02 »
Hi Dave

If you want to use the FTP account you have to use a program like filezilla http://filezilla-project.org/download.php?type=client  ( Its free )

Just type in the connection details at the top and connect, you then just drag your file to pixinsights anonymous

To create a zip file you would use something like winzip

Star maskn for dummies !!!!!!!!!! I will let you know when this dummy knows ;D

Harry
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Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #13 on: 2009 July 06 06:59:14 »
OK...I am still a bit confused about the "anonymous " thing... Sendspace does not (as far as I know) designate a name,or location for my file...but I will have a look after it is uploaded....(tick,tick,tick...) :'(

I have an "account" with "sendspace"...How about I put the file (zipped if I can figure that out) on that site,and leave the link here...?

Sorry but I have some kind of (Freudian,probably) problem with getting my head around some of this stuff.

I am going to go ahead and upload the file...
I will get back to you...
« Last Edit: 2009 July 06 07:10:30 by dhalliday »
Dave Halliday
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Offline dhalliday

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Re: star masking for HDR
« Reply #14 on: 2009 July 06 07:24:44 »
http://www.sendspace.com/file/uzkyk5

this is the link....
let me know if it is OK...
it is a 58MB DSS stack of M27...untouched...
Star masking was my primary interest...but if someone wants to give it the "full monty"...be my guest !!

Dave
Dave Halliday
8" Newtonian/Vixen VC200L/ TV 101,etc etc
SSAG/EQ6
CGE Pro
SBIG ST2K,ST10XME