Author Topic: Possible camera purchase, but need advice on sensor spots  (Read 3869 times)

Offline sctall

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I am looking at buying a used Starlight Xpress OSC camera
I am trying it out, and I see the sensor has many spots on it.

So I did a test last night to test out if flats will take care of it.
 I took a few lights, (no tracking),  of the sky around Polaris
Took 8 or so 60s Lights.
Then took some .02 sec flats with the Gerdman

Then took some bias and darks (60s darks)
All done at -10C

calibrated them thru PI BPP and this is what turned out.
Cannot get rid of the spots.
I sure could use some help here. I have uploaded the files used on dropbox at:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u4lsu2f61w7ytdt/AABA1BkB-IjritK8yLr4mkkia?dl=0

P.S. I cannot get the manual way to work at all.
After the Lights calibration, before debayer, It seems to  lose all data in the files.
And then has no stars to align on.

UPDATE:  I found I must click the Optimize for the Master Dark in the IC for making the flats master.
I did not have to do this for DSLR. Why???

I did it with BPP but it did not clean up as well. With the defaults.

Maybe I am doing something wrong here, but I still get no flat calibration using BPP.

Scott
« Last Edit: 2015 January 30 15:19:22 by sctall »
ES102, WO GT81, astronomics, guide scope  CEM60
ASI120MC, ASI224MC, ASI178MM
Lunt60 SS,  moonlight focuser
LX200GPS

Offline MikeOates

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Re: Possible camera purchase, but need advice on sensor spots
« Reply #1 on: 2015 January 31 04:16:03 »
Scott,

I downloaded one of each of your frames. Used ImageCalibration and as you say it does not work. So I looked at each type of image and the darks have still got the CFA pattern on them while the others are all debayed and are grey scale.

I did the calibration again but unticked master dark and left the Calibrate the Master flat ticked and the result is a correctly calibrated file with no dust spots. But it is a mono file.

Looking at the dark after a debayer it looks really bad, not like a dark at all and has the following stats:

Code: [Select]
dark_60sec_1x1__frame1_RGB_VNG
            R            G           B
count (%)   100.00000    100.00000   100.00000
count (px)  9188256      9188256     9188256
mean        17676.328    12813.253   8940.723
median      17836.607    12927.000   9005.714
variance    1004751.884  430843.056  181949.620
stdDev      1002.373     656.386     426.556
avgDev      797.363      533.329     340.861
MAD         698.081      459.667     288.433
minimum     7803.875     9978.000    6862.833
maximum     55282.000    51698.000   52086.998

Sorry, but I have to ask, was the cover over the scope/ camera when taking the darks?

Just to compare with one of my mono 300s darks:

Code: [Select]
dark_300sec_1x1__frame1
            K
count (%)   99.99999
count (px)  9188255
mean        2070.6
median      2070.0
variance    2025.0
stdDev      45.0
avgDev      19.2
MAD         16.0
minimum     1931.0
maximum     62406.0

I hope that helps.

Mike
« Last Edit: 2015 January 31 04:28:44 by MikeOates »

Offline sctall

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Re: Possible camera purchase, but need advice on sensor spots
« Reply #2 on: 2015 January 31 16:33:36 »
Thanks Mike

I did have the cover over the scope. And just took 60sec subs.
I don't know what to say.

I am using a new software SGPro.
I might have done something.
But don't see how hard it would be.

I need to further investigate this.
But the fact you could get the calibration to work, and the spots removed is great news.

I probably have a new learning curve here.

I am taking some more darks tonight and will look at the stats.
Question: How should I test out the frames?
1. Take them, they download in mono. Open them in PI, and look at the mean/median?

Scott


ES102, WO GT81, astronomics, guide scope  CEM60
ASI120MC, ASI224MC, ASI178MM
Lunt60 SS,  moonlight focuser
LX200GPS

Offline Harry page

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Re: Possible camera purchase, but need advice on sensor spots
« Reply #3 on: 2015 February 01 01:14:37 »
Hi

I have tried and use your flats with just using the bias for the flat and use it as a dark as well and your lights work just fine

This is a common trick with sx camera ( I don't use a dark )

The problem with your dark is that you have a light leak somewhere , if you want to use darks try putting the camera nose on and taking darks then

Regards

Harry
Harry Page

Offline MikeOates

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Re: Possible camera purchase, but need advice on sensor spots
« Reply #4 on: 2015 February 01 02:17:32 »
Scott,

I also use SGPro, so that is not an issue. But I did not look closely at your frames before and I now realise that they are all bayer images. So there is no issue there of having mixed files.

The problem lies with the darks in that they are not dark at all and have significant mean values. I suggest that you take some more darks and make sure there are absolutely no light leaks anywhere, even around the camera so cover that with black cloth. But make sure there is some airflow for the cooling to take place. Don't wait for a clear sky wasting valuable imaging time, do the test indoors, but do it in the dark.

As for the other frames:
- The bias level looks good at about 1485 ADU
- Flats at about 11,000 are a bit dark and I would suggest aiming for 20,000 to 25,000. There are quite a lot of dust specs, most of which will be on the CCD cover slip, and if those are on the outside a clean may remove some of those. But even as bad as it looks the flat frame removes all of them.
- Lights also look fine, there are a number of hot pixels, but there are even in new cameras and calibrating with darks or using DefectMap plus CosmeticCorrection will sort those out.

I have an SX814 mono with a mean ADU of 2076 for 1800 second darks which is hardly an increase from 2070 ADU for 300 seconds I gave earlier, with a bias mean of 2045, so dark noise from my camera is negligible. Mine are done at -25C.

Looking at the FITS header of your dark it does seem to be a dark at 60 seconds, I was wondering if you had got the frames mixed up, but it does not look like you have.

So in conclusion the big question is, why is the light frame mean ADU at about 2400 and the dark at about 12,000 !! It does not make sense. All I can think of is that light is getting onto the sensor.

Mike
« Last Edit: 2015 February 01 03:07:58 by MikeOates »

Offline MikeOates

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Re: Possible camera purchase, but need advice on sensor spots
« Reply #5 on: 2015 February 01 02:22:27 »
Scott,

Looks like Harry comes to the same conclusion. Depending on the camera, as Harry says you may not need a dark anyway. I don't use them as there is almost no noise there. I do my callibration manually and just leave the dark section un-ticked.

Mike

Offline sctall

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Re: Possible camera purchase, but need advice on sensor spots
« Reply #6 on: 2015 February 01 10:32:08 »
Mike,

Thanks for all the good advice.
 I did open the darks on dropbox and it was real high.
I definitely screwed up on that.
I took some more darks and they avg 1600ADU. I replaced them on dropbox.
I see the Bias do also, except the maximum is real low on the Bias, but avg 52000 on the darks.
If the flats are taken at .4s I get 20K ADU.
I am definitely getting the SX814C camera.

P.S. I agree with you both on possibly no need for darks. I will see how it goes.

Regards
Scott
ES102, WO GT81, astronomics, guide scope  CEM60
ASI120MC, ASI224MC, ASI178MM
Lunt60 SS,  moonlight focuser
LX200GPS