Author Topic: Dealing with salt and pepper noise?  (Read 4397 times)

Offline iksose7

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Dealing with salt and pepper noise?
« on: 2015 January 23 13:10:18 »
Hi,

I am looking for advise on how to deal with this type of artifact left over after NR. It looks like a dark speckle/pepper.

I am sure i read a few weeks ago the Juan recommended using a sharpening routine paired with the NR to reduce it if that makes sense? I cant find the topic now and not sure if he was even talking about the same thing!

I have included a before and after NR below. I used MLT and the data was taken with a DSLR. Please ignore the star trails, this is old data i am reprocessing! ;)

Thanks
Callum

Offline joelshort

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Re: Dealing with salt and pepper noise?
« Reply #1 on: 2015 January 30 17:17:19 »
I have noticed this effect as well and I'm interested in knowing how to deal with it too.  I'm a newbie too...
Joel Short
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Offline MortenBalling

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Re: Dealing with salt and pepper noise?
« Reply #2 on: 2015 January 30 18:15:16 »
Hi Callum

I think, the problem is, that you're trying to remove all the noise in one sweep. Actually, I'm impressed that you are able to do that! :)

Try to accept a little noise, and adjust your MLT settings carefully, one layer at a time, using a realtime preview.

I think you should be able to remove even the salt/pepper noise. I tried that using the example in your post, and it works fine. Problem arises when I try to regain sharpness using the detail layers.

Try to reduce the amount of noise reduction on each layer to 0.5, and then increase the value until you get the best result.

I've personally found, that I get the best results in PI, using small careful steps. If it wasn't enough, I can add more later.

Cs

Morten  :)

Offline avarakin

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Re: Dealing with salt and pepper noise?
« Reply #3 on: 2015 February 04 22:30:15 »
I also ran into this problem many times. I found couple of options for dealing with this:
1. cosmetic process with "low" enabled and being very low, sometimes 0
2. even better option IMO, is a very slight ACDNR, followed by MLT

Alex

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Dealing with salt and pepper noise?
« Reply #4 on: 2015 February 05 02:55:41 »
Quote
I am sure i read a few weeks ago the Juan recommended using a sharpening routine paired with the NR to reduce it

I am not sure if you refer to MultiscaleLinearTransform (MLT) or MultiscaleMedianTransform (MMT). If it's MMT, I assume you refer to this tutorial:

http://pixinsight.com/tutorials/mmt-noise-reduction/

In this case those dark artifacts are the result of not removing outlier structures correctly with MMT. You have to use the threshold and adaptive noise reduction parameters to reduce noise and prevent these outliers on each transform layer. These parameters are described in the tutorial. Excerpting the most relevant paragraphs:

  • Threshold. Increase the threshold parameter to remove more image structures. Typically, a value around 3 or 4 MAD is appropriate for the first layer. Successive layers normally require smaller thresholds (the larger the layer scale, the smaller threshold is usually required), but the actual values depend on the image and its noise distribution. Too large of a threshold will remove significant structures. Try to adjust this parameter to the smaller value able to remove the noise as you wish on each layer.
  • Adaptive. Increase this parameter when you see isolated, high-contrast, relatively small structures that survive after finding an otherwise good noise threshold value. As happens with the threshold parameter, the less is the better: always try to find the smallest adaptive noise parameter that can remove the unwanted noise structures.

If you are using MLT, then you are not applying a correct noise reduction process with the same result: false structures generated by noise that escapes your noise reduction. MLT can be more difficult to control than MMT in this sense, mainly because MMT is much better at isolating structures. However, MLT can be better to reduce heavy background noise. Try to adjust the threshold parameter on each MLT layer to prevent these artifacts. If necessary, play with the amount and iterations parameters to fine tune your noise reduction. With these images, always use a linear mask with both MLT and MMT. This will allow you to apply a much stronger noise reduction. See this processing example:

http://pixinsight.com/examples/M81M82/index.html#Noise_Reduction

Applying noise reduction and sharpening at the same time is possible and sometimes useful with MMT and MLT. However, normally this only works for high-SNR data. This clearly excludes most linear deep-sky images. So better apply noise reduction only.
« Last Edit: 2015 February 05 03:11:17 by Juan Conejero »
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline iksose7

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Re: Dealing with salt and pepper noise?
« Reply #5 on: 2015 February 06 06:41:18 »
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, i'll give them a go next chance i get!

One thing i should say is that these structures dont appear to be generated but rather left behind. They appear where the darkest patches of the noise originally was. Any way, i will play with thresehold ect and see if i can remove them.

Thanks again
Callum