Author Topic: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC  (Read 5459 times)

Offline bhwolf

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« on: 2014 March 14 14:29:54 »
The moon was out last night but otherwise conditions were good, so decided to capture some Ha using my DSLR.  I've read a number of posts on the subject and watched Harry's tutorial on HaRGB -- lots of great info.  I understand the limitations of narrowband with an OSC, but I'm not completely sure how I should approach processing the Ha exposures.   I was thinking it's probably best to not debayer via batch preprocessing. What's the best way to process the images?  Basically wondering how to properly extract the red channel once calibrated/stacked. 

Thanks much again,
Brian

Offline Phil Leigh

  • PixInsight Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #1 on: 2014 March 15 01:26:50 »
Ha on a DSLR puts data into the red channel (blue and green will contain just noise).

I do the following:

Use the BPP script set to "Calibration only" (this stops the script after debayering but before registration). Calibrate as normal with bias/dark/flats but set the Debayering method to Superpixel. This prevents noise from the blue/green channels polluting the red Ha data.

Then take the debayered frames and use the Batch Channel Extraction Script to retain just the Red channel
Then register and integrate the red frames. This produces a monochrome Ha Master.

Offline bhwolf

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #2 on: 2014 March 15 06:25:04 »
Thanks Phil!

Appreciate the info!  What's interesting and where I thought I was going wrong is that -- even though I used Superpixel -- I was seeing a reasonable amount of non-noise data in my G/B channels.  Of course, I checked the individual subs and it's there, too, so I'm assuming this is because of <100% efficiency of the filters.  It's nearly all noise. 

Is there an advantage (data integrity wise, not speed/resources) to extracting the red channel before registration/integration instead of say letting bpp register the debayered images and perform a initial integration? 


Offline Phil Leigh

  • PixInsight Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #3 on: 2014 March 16 01:46:21 »
Yes - you need narrow filters; Mine are 8nm.

There's no need to extract the red (except for performance) until later.
regards
Phil

Offline pfile

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Jedi Grand Master
  • ********
  • Posts: 4729
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #4 on: 2014 March 16 15:35:01 »
i don't think any of the debayer methods in pixinsight will mix channel data. i think there are some debayer methods that do look at the other channels when reconstructing a channel, but Debayer only does superpixel, bilinear and VNG.

DSLR_RAW does also support AHD which may or may not mix channel data - not sure.

rob

Offline Phil Leigh

  • PixInsight Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #5 on: 2014 March 16 23:20:22 »
i don't think any of the debayer methods in pixinsight will mix channel data. i think there are some debayer methods that do look at the other channels when reconstructing a channel, but Debayer only does superpixel, bilinear and VNG.

DSLR_RAW does also support AHD which may or may not mix channel data - not sure.

rob

Hmmm... Rob, are you saying that I can use VNG(my preferred algorithm) instead of superpixel?

Offline bitli

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #6 on: 2014 March 17 05:05:18 »
Debayer is one of the few process with doc: http://pixinsight.com/doc/tools/Debayer/Debayer.html
-- bitli

Offline Phil Leigh

  • PixInsight Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #7 on: 2014 March 17 06:09:49 »
Debayer is one of the few process with doc: http://pixinsight.com/doc/tools/Debayer/Debayer.html
-- bitli

Well yes - I've read that a few times... it always seemed to me that Superpixel was doing the opposite of what I want when shooting narrowband - it was averaging the content of 4 adjacent pixels (unless I'm reading it completely wrong?)

The most intuitive way of doing Narrowband via an OSC would be to take the undebayered data and (for Ha) discard all but the "red" pixel data.
Why wouldn't this work?

Offline pfile

  • PTeam Member
  • PixInsight Jedi Grand Master
  • ********
  • Posts: 4729
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #8 on: 2014 March 17 08:38:44 »
well i have not read it in a long time but i believe superpixel is not interpolating pixels, just picking out the red pixels from the matrix and assigning them to the red channel, averaging the two greens together and assigning it to the green channel, and blue to blue.

that's why the image comes out smaller than other debayering algorithms - all the rest of them try to infer what the missing red, green and blue pixels would look like if they could exist. bilinear is really naive, it just averages the neighboring pixels to come up with the missing values. i think most of the rest of the debayering algorithms are variations on this theme - various weightings of the neighboring pixels that are more intelligent based on features of the scene.

the ones you'd have to watch out for are ones that try to extract luminance from the bayer matrix and then use that as a guide for reconstructing the channels. in the case of an Ha image the green channel is going to be almost completely just noise, but in normal terrestrial images the green forms the bulk of the luminance signal. clearly that will lead to bad things happening to the red channel.

i think you can also use Nikolay's SplitCFA to get your red channel data. i have used a pixel math version of his process to grab the individual green channels from the bayer matrix. i was curious if integrating them separately would lead to better results, but as far as i can tell it was not worth the trouble.

i'd have to go read the VNG papers or code again to really confirm that the channel data is kept separate, but i remember looking at it years ago and coming to that conclusion.

rob

Offline Phil Leigh

  • PixInsight Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: Narrowband w/ DSLR / OSC
« Reply #9 on: 2014 March 17 09:06:50 »
Thanks Rob - I've gone round in a circle; here Nikolay says that Superpixel followed by RGB channel extraction gives the same results as SplitCFA...
http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=43569;topic=6249.0;last_msg=46363

Which means I can keep on doing it that way(?)