Author Topic: We need documentation!  (Read 9788 times)

Offline georg.viehoever

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Re: We need documentation!
« Reply #15 on: 2013 December 10 10:39:05 »
Hi Scott,

so how can we make this learning curve less steep. The technology behind PI is amazing, and I am always wondering how Juan pulls this off. But I feel that few of us really have the ability to leverage all the power that PI gives us. IMHO, providing (more) decent documentation would certainly help, and explaining a  fuller view of the concepts of astrophotography and PI is another. I am still puzzled about the best way to make PI a better place.... How can we making this learning curve less steep?

Georg
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Offline sctall

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Re: We need documentation!
« Reply #16 on: 2013 December 10 15:18:57 »
Hi Georg,

Unfortunately, that is a tough question to answer. And there are most likely many answers. I can only speak for my self by saying, being a Test Engineer myself, I am a fanatic when it comes to documentation. In my line the better the doc the less the customer issues I have to deal with.  But I am aware you cannot make someone read. And you can get yourself in over your head trying to keep up with it.
So I say documentation is essential, and every feature does need it. The LIVE feature that many tools (but not enough) have is really nice. I can look at the doc, as I am working the image. This is very handy.
The first tool I learned to use, (well almost the first)was the DBE tool. This helps out with my LP issues. But in reading the doc, (which is fine by the way), was confusing, because being a complete lamen at this, when I read the mouse over explanations, I had no idea what it was saying. I knew nothing, and still am learning about sigma units, mean background, 2D-surface spline, etc,etc,etc.
So in many cases more elaborate documentation isn't that helpful. But for some I am sure it was great info.
One thing that would be nice is some kind of doc "explaining a fuller view of the concepts of astrophotography and PI" as you said. .  But I think it should include some simple items  like DSLR formats explanations like the ones in the "Format Explorer", but more verbose. At first they meant nothing to me.  Now I have somewhat of an understanding, the the 3 bottom explanations in the top section make sense.  But I have no idea what the top one (Create super-pixels mean). It's things like this, that I can't expect you to document, I just appreciate the answers that I get.
Another thing that goes with the format is the "hints" in some tools. Had no idea what they were for. Even after reading the description. Do now of course.
I just don't have an answer for you, except  docs for each tool. Obviously a book like those from Jerry Lodriguss on PI would be great. But that is a heck of a chore.
One feature of PI, that I am just learning to use, are all the scripts. Lot of talk about the mschusters scripts in the Scriptbox.
But once again, if you don't know what the science is behind it and understand what the parameters are to be and what to expect, the tool doesn't makes sense. Also even how to download a script and execute it properly is not explained. I have run into dependency issues when trying to execute some scripts.
My biggest gripe (and this a gripe to myself), is I do not know what to expect for numbers on my images. I am trying to learn about FHWM, noise values, sub exposure estimates, I could go on and on.
I would appreciate someplace where I could get some  amatuer and non-professional data images to open with some tools and get ideas of different values. But I don't know if just a sub or just the stacked image would do, or possibly the final processed image. But I would like is that I could open and compare to learn more about what expectations or goals I could look forward too. I know my data is not the best, but I have no idea what good data numbers look like for some of the tools and scripts described above  and what I should shoot for.


So you see, I think just knowing that there is someone , and usually several users that can answer questions as they arrive, is the most important attribute and most invaluable feature of this forum, which as far as I am concerned is part of PI.
I think you said it all when you said "The technology behind PI is amazing", however that means it is an advanced piece of software, and will require a lot of educating and learning.

Scott
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Offline jkmorse

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Re: We need documentation!
« Reply #17 on: 2013 December 11 01:30:17 »
Just to pick up on Scott's point, I have previously shared my cribsheet with the forum, but it is now up to Rev17 and still I keep adding new stuff.  The problem is twofold, first, I build it to match my preferred workflow so it has lots of personal elements and, second, if I didn't constantly tweak it the thing would be out of date quickly or would miss out on my recent learnings (PixelMath, with a huge thanks to Gerald's tutorials).  Just imagine if we had a book a year ago.  It would need to be substantially rewritten just based on the changes we have seen in the last few months culminating in the Ripley improvements.  And it would in some ways provide false security that you are getting the most out of the program when that would never be the case. 

I guess I am firmly on the side of you don't get full value for the vast investment Juan and his development team have made unless you dig in and get your fingers dirty.  We all come from some processing background so newbies rarely need that kind of primer.  Its more about learning new PI ways of doing things (and IMHO they are so much more logical than anything I used to do with Layers in you know where).  And if you are looking for theory, we already have Berry's Handbook of Astronomical Image Processing which remains the bible (I still thumb through it regularly).

And for people like me, and I am guessing Scott as well from his note, we are not numbers guys so just a "open this, - set these parameters - hit apply" type of written instructions will not teach us how to get a true understanding of what is really going on.  That's why this forum is so valuable and really one of the best I have seen as far as a teaching tool for newbies, wannabe non-newbies but still drinking from a firehose (and I include myself firmly in that group), and old hands alike.

For what its worth,

Jim
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Offline georg.viehoever

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Re: We need documentation!
« Reply #18 on: 2013 December 11 08:05:55 »
I found this about wikis http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/dec/11/your-wiki-dump/ . Certainly something to consider should we resuscitate the wiki approach.
Georg
Georg (6 inch Newton, unmodified Canon EOS40D+80D, unguided EQ5 mount)