Author Topic: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?  (Read 4752 times)

Offline jmtanous

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Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« on: 2010 August 09 21:47:22 »
Hi,

I just update from 1.60 to 1.61 on OSX 32bits

1.61 is crashing a lot and is producing some unexpected results when using ATrousWaveletTransform

I tried to find 1.60 at http://pixinsight.com/dist but is gone!

Is there a way to reinstall 1.60?

1.60 had some GUI issues but never crashed... and I want to confirm the *problem* I am expecting with ATrousWaveletTransform.

Cheers,

Jose

Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #1 on: 2010 August 10 01:39:53 »
Hi Jose,

I'll add 1.6.0 installation archives to the distribution databases later this afternoon (sorry, I don't have ssh access to our main server machine right now --I am supposed to be on some sort of 'vacation' :) ).

However, this problem is really weird and AFAIK hasn't been reported before. Could you be more specific on the type of crashes and unexpected results you're getting with ATrousWaveletTransform? Could you put some examples for me to analyze?

Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience!
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #2 on: 2010 August 10 03:27:48 »
My $0.02-worth . . .

I make a point of always DOWNLOADING all of the PI releases that I think I might need, so I will download both the 32-bit AND the 64-bit versions of v1.6.1 - for Windows only, as this is the only OS I am working with at the moment.

I do this for EVERY new version that Juan releases - it takes up a TINY amount of HDD space, and it makes life SO MUCH EASIER if I want to regress back a version, or to even try two versions 'side-by-side' on different machines (never actuallay done 'either', but I could if I wanted to ;D)

There just isn't any advantage to 'installing online' - after all you have to download the installer anyway, and it will end up 'abandoned' by your OS in some out of the way TEMP directory, only ever getting flushed and purged when something else needs the HDD space (if you are 'lucky', that is - sometime Windoze NEVER gets around to flushing its junk heap >:()

If we all adopted this policy, it would make life easier for Juan as he would not have to clutter HIS download repository with 'dated' or 'previous' versions - after all, he has a difficult enough task just providing all the different 'current' versions needed for the ever expanding list of supported Operating Systems that PI works with.

Cheers,
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

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Offline Nocturnal

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #3 on: 2010 August 10 06:32:42 »
I also keep a few versions in reserve. They all have version numbers as downloaded so this is easy to do.
Best,

    Sander
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Offline Juan Conejero

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #4 on: 2010 August 10 13:11:47 »
Hi Jose,

Version 1.6.0.592 for Mac OS X (32-bit) is now available on the software distribution system. This version is dated 2010 April 07.

However, I am very interested (and concerned) in knowing where the problem is and how it can be reproduced with version 1.6.1.

Thanks!
Juan Conejero
PixInsight Development Team
http://pixinsight.com/

Offline jmtanous

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #5 on: 2010 August 10 13:57:25 »
Juan,

Thanks...

To be more precise. 1.6.1 is crashing every time I try to create a star mask (AFAIK the bug is already reported). And from time to time PI crashes without any obvious reason.

Regarding ATrousWaveletTransform, I was surprise to see that if I split an image into low frequency (64 pixel layer) and high frequency (32 pixel layer and up) components and then I add these 2 components using pixelmatch the tool produces a different image from the original. I am not talking about rounding errors, I am talking of visible differences.

Anyway I did the same experiment with 1.60 (decompose an image into high and low frequency and add them up) and the results are the same as in 1.6.1 so I guess this is not a bug and is likely that I am doing something wrong.

Thanks for your fast response... This forum is the main reason I bought PI :P

If you need more info regarding the star mask crashes, just let me know...

Cheers,

Jose

Offline Nocturnal

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #6 on: 2010 August 10 14:01:30 »
Jose,

Atrous splits the image in the specified layers plus the residual. If you don't add back the residual your image won't be complete. I don't think you can do two splits with 2 residual and somehow reconstruct the original but Juan will know.
Best,

    Sander
---
Edge HD 1100
QHY-8 for imaging, IMG0H mono for guiding, video cameras for occulations
ASI224, QHY5L-IIc
HyperStar3
WO-M110ED+FR-III/TRF-2008
Takahashi EM-400
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Offline Carlos Milovic

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #7 on: 2010 August 10 14:38:36 »
Hi Jose (if you prefer spanish, let me know)

Quote
Regarding ATrousWaveletTransform, I was surprise to see that if I split an image into low frequency (64 pixel layer) and high frequency (32 pixel layer and up) components and then I add these 2 components using pixelmatch the tool produces a different image from the original. I am not talking about rounding errors, I am talking of visible differences.

First, a theorical background: The À Trous wavelet transform is what is called a redundant function. This means, that each scale layer has the same dimensions as the original image, instead of storing "wavelets coefficients". This way, the inverse ATrousWavelets transform is simply the sum of every layer.
Now, internally each layer is a new floating point image, with positive and negative values. If you design a PCL process module, or PJSR script, sepparating small scales and large scales in two different floating point images with ATWT and then adding them together should yield the same image as result as the original one.
Now, with the ATWT process "frontend", something different happens. This tool has been designed for image enhancement, not mathematical handling. It tries to output data das has visually a meaning (i.e. in the 0 to 1 range). Everything outside this is clipped, truncated. So, if you disable some layers, you'll get a los of zeroes (and some ones, 1s, maybe) that represent data loss. Because of this, simply adding the results of disabling some layers won't work.
BTW, if you preview a particular layer, you'll see that it has an offset, to propperly represent negative values on the screen. This way, 0.5 is in fact 0. :)

The workaround: If you want to get only the first 4 layers in one image, for example, then you must do the opposite: disable them, and create a large scale image, since it is much less likelly that you'll get data loss there. Do that to a clone of the original image. Now, using PixelMath, subtract the large scale image to the original one. If you want to keep all data intact, but don't care too much about pixel value shifts or scalations (additive and multiplicative effects), then rescale the image. If you want to have full control over the data, create your own shift and amplification, disabling the rescale option. A third option is to create two high frecuency (small scale) images, one with the bright features, and another with dark features. Just don't rescale, and invert the order of the operant images. Then, to reconstruct the original image do this: Large+Small_bright-Small_dark and you have not to worry about shifts or other factors.


Hope this helps.
Regards,

Carlos Milovic F.
--------------------------------
PixInsight Project Developer
http://www.pixinsight.com

Offline jmtanous

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #8 on: 2010 August 10 17:16:51 »
Carlos,

Thanks a lot!

I'll give it a try...

Cheers,

Jose

Offline jmtanous

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Re: Is there a way to go back to 1.60?
« Reply #9 on: 2010 August 10 20:34:05 »
Sander,

thanks for your reply... I'll try Carlos' *recipe*

Cheers,

Jose