Printing: Am I doing something wrong or does PixInsight not know how to print?

[tomb18]

I have a fair bit of experience in printing fine art photos on a professional printer (Epson 7800) using photoshop or Capture One.
Typically to print, one resamples (resizes in PS) the image to the DPI you wish for the print as well as the size, (for example 24" x 36" at 240 dpi). This will give you an image 24x36 at 240 DPI.  You then setup the printer using "Print Setup", telling it the paper size, who takes care of color management etc and quality you wish for the print (1440 dpi, 2880 etc...), paper thickness etc. You then do "Print".  What you will then get is a picture giving a preview just before you print that will use the settings you have defined in the Print Setup dialog.  This will allow you to check and change borders etc.  Then you print.
So I figured that when you have your final image, you resample to the size and DPI you wish using the "Resample" process in PixInsight and do a final resharpening of the image (which is absolutely necessary for printing and depends on your experience with the type of paper you are using.
In PixInsight,  when you go to print, first of all it continuously ignores the printer settings you define and requires you to do them all over again even if you set defaults, but then it gives another dialog where it asks for DPI, Printer DPI, Height Width etc.  It completely ignores the settings you set using the resample process in PixInsight.  So effec tively, if this is a resampling algorithm, you are resampling twice and it is giving slightly different sizes than the resampling algorithm gives.
So I guess the solution is to not resample your image using the resample process and do it in PIXinsights Print preprocessor.  The problem with this and it is serious, is that typically you want to do a sharpen after the resample.  With PixInsight this is not possible.
So what is going on here?  Am I not using the PixInsight printing correctly?  Or is PixInsight doing this wrong?  I am pretty sure it is the latter unless I have missed something along the way.
Thanks for any help.
Tom

[tomb18]

Anyone? I asked this question to technical support, which according to the FAQ's will get answered to paying customers.  So far, nothing and I'm very disappointed with the support facilities for this product.
That plus the lack of documentation....There's a question mark in the print facility, and like usual, there is NO documentation.

[eganz]

Tom,

personally I have never printed from PixInsight so I can't help you there, but it sounds like it's not working well for you.

I suggest that you output your image as a 16-bit TIFF, and then print and post process it from Photoshop.

Eric

[tomb18]

Thanks.  But that's not always convenient since I do not have PS on my laptop which I often use for PixInsight.
This is pretty frustrating.  3 emails over 2 weeks and no reply from support.
Extremely poor support.

[Juan Conejero]

Hi Tom,

As you have discovered, the printing functionality is quite limited in PixInsight, especially on OS X and Windows. It works quite well on Linux and FreeBSD, however, but undoubtedly it is still an unfinished component. It is also an optional component that you can disable with command line arguments when you launch PixInsight.

That said, the problem you are posing should be solved easily if you resample your image (and then sharpen it, etc.) to the exact dimensions in pixels that you require (taking the final resolution and printed dimensions into account) before printing it. Then if you select the correct dimensions and resolution, no further interpolation will be done when printing. This task is trivial with the Resample tool (and if required, DynamicCrop or Crop). If it does not work that way, then we have a bug that should be reported with a repeatable scenario.

Your initial post and email to support are dated Friday November 25 (afternoon here). November 26 and 27 were Saturday and Sunday, respectively. I try to work a bit less on weekends, when possible, so let's avoid counting these two days. I am writing this as of Wednesday, November 30, at 00:48 am local time. Three working days to answer a non-critical technical issue is not optimal but reasonable in my opinion. This is not a multinational company with a legion of people ready to provide immediate support. I do what I can, and I have a personal life, which can get quite complicated for countless reasons that are not the case.

As I noted in a previous email, you still can get a full refund of your license payment as an exception. I suggest you take it, given your extreme frustration with PixInsight.

[tomb18]

Unfortunately there were two other emails earlier that week, one on Monday and one other wednesday that were not answered.  Perhaps there was a technical issue I do not know.  I have since solved them, but one which was trivial took 3 hours of looking around the web and trying things.
You mention that there is an optional component for printing that you can disable via command line when you start pixinsight.  Where is that documented?
In any case, yes it is now apparent that resampling in PixInsight can be done first but then then you are required to set the DPI of the image again in the print pre-processor.  However, that is not obvious and not necessary with a workflow that is normally used.  Pressing the ? in the print process gives nothing.
Therein lies my major complaint with the PixInsight product.  Do you realize that 67 out of about 89 processes have no documentation in the Windows version of PixInsight?  What this means is that I have to spend a fair amount of time looking elsewhere and running into many dead ends. That is my major complaint.  But that doesn't mean your paying customers should just "live with it because PixInsight is so good".  No I do not want a refund and I guess I'll just have to live with it.

[eganz]

If you're new to PixInsight, and frustrated, then I recommend watching the videos at Harry's Astro shed

[eganz]

There are a lot of other resources available online, many of them free or inexpensive.
For example IP4AP etc.
if you looking for something printed  "Inside PixInsight" can be had as a book or e-book By Warren Keller.

[jkmorse]

Tom,

Let me jump in here again and try to explain why I don't see any of this as the huge issue you do.  The print function is a prime example of what I love about PixInsight.  It is a work in progress and while it is rough at the moment, given Juan's track record, when he refines it, it will work and work extremely well.  The Wavelet based processes are a perfect example.  We started a ways back with things like ATrous' wavelet processes and others of a similar vintage with have now been supplanted by MLT, MMT, TGVD, etc, etc., all markedly improved from the original iterations.  Juan is providing those kinds of step wise improvements on a regular basis.  And all of that comes with ONE, and I repeat, ONE license payment for the life of your use (though I personally believe Juan should be asking more from long time users).  And he does not have a huge team.  This is basically one man's labor of love. 

Compare that to what you pay and what you get documentation wise from the giants, the likes of Adobe.  You now have to pay an arm and a leg up front with no update rights or sign up for life with annual payments.  And none of those products are really usable without spending extra on third party guides, missing manuals, etc., etc.  I have past experience with PS and much more recent experience with Dreamweaver, which I happily use to run my website since it is excellent software, but without costly third party material, the task would be hopeless.  And Adobe has a team that I guess is in the hundreds, if not the thousands, to support their products.  Juan is basically a one man shop, with help from the likes of the PixInsight Coffee folks, the superb script writers, and the lesser contributors like myself who do what we can to contribute since we get so, so much in return.

You yourself clearly recognize the worth of PixInsight, otherwise you would take up Juan's kind offer of a refund.  All I am asking is that you put aside your vitriol and stop bitching and moaning about what PI is lacking and focus on the issue at hand.  If you have questions, by all means come here for answers.  This is the liveliest product forum site I have had the pleasure to participate in.  The knowledge base is enormous, and Juan regularly contributes his efforts as well.  But please let up with the tiresome rants.  And if you can't, then you are welcome to forgo the benefits of PI, take the refund, and try to find anything remotely comparable for anywhere near the price.

Enough,

Jim

   

[Juan Conejero]

Unfortunately there were two other emails earlier that week

Either you used a different email address that didn't reach our inbox, since we have answered all support requests received before a couple of days ago, or your emails were blocked by our spam filters, which would be extremely rare. We only have one email from the account associated with your license in our inbox, dated 2016 November 25 22:09 CEST, with the same question you've posted in this thread. Sorry to be so explicit, but I can't remain indifferent when you say we are ignoring your support requests. Please send your questions again and we'll try to answer them as soon as possible.

You mention that there is an optional component for printing that you can disable via command line when you start pixinsight.  Where is that documented?

It is the --without-printer command line argument. To get detailed information on command-line arguments, simply run the PixInsight core application executable from a terminal with the standard --help argument. You can also do this from the Process Console window by entering the following command:

!"$PXI_COREDIR"/PixInsight --help

To get detailed help on PixInsight's console shell script commands, simply enter the 'help' command.

Pressing the ? in the print process gives nothing.

Unless somebody has written a tool that I am not aware of, pressing '?' does nothing at all in PixInsight. PixInsight is not a Windows/macOS/X11 application. See FAQ 5.5.

you are required to set the DPI of the image again in the print pre-processor

The resolution units parameter in the Print dialog is the printer resolution you want to use, not the resolution of the image. The image resolution can be set with the Resample tool.

[jkmorse]

I also want to address one more point that is at the heart of this and at least one other thread.  It is misleading to say that the vast majority of processes have no documentation.  That is simply not true.  I went back and did some checking last night, looking at a couple of dozen processes, including all of the multiscale processes.  I will concede that if you click on the little documentation button that there is nothing there.  But that ignores the fact that for each of those tools virtually every item that you can manipulate, whether it be a slider, button, or otherwise, is annotated, and sometimes heavily so.  All you have to do is hover your mouse over the descriptor for that input item and you get a wealth of detail on what that input does and often recommendations on how to use it and detailed explanations of what it does.  Its a disservice to PI to suggest they haven't made the effort to make the tools accessible.

Jim   

[Greg Schwimer]

I'll add to this that I initially was frustrated with a perceived lack of documentation. But per Jim's point, I find the in-tool mouse-over information to be far more useful as it actually provides highly contextual information. I find this far easier to digest than a lengthy page that I have to scan with my eyes to find the information I need about a slider, value, checkbox, etc.

And I find it funny how now as I use other applications (TSX for example) I find myself wishing that they had adopted a similar means of easily accessible, in-context help.

[jkmorse]

Greg,

Funny you should say that about TSX.  I had to go in and create a whole set of cheat sheets for use in the field just to keep track of the nuggets buried in TSX's 600+ page manual.  Tons of information but it takes several readings to begin to find all the nuggets and put them to use. 

Best,

Jim