Author Topic: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations  (Read 3607 times)

Offline jimwaters

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I am a new user and want to build a desktop that’s designed for image processing.  I want the desktop to be a Core i7-6950X 25M Broadwell-E 10-Core 3.0 GHz x99 based PC.  Likely Windows 10 Pro.  I plan to use 32GBytes expandable to 64GBytes if needed of quad-channel DDR4 2800 MHz.  I am having problems finding a x99 based motherboard that has dual M.2 SSD support.  I want to setup a RAID 0 SSD using these M.2 SSD’s. I am currently using a Lenovo E440 Core i7 laptop and its way to slow.

I have checked Gigabyte but can’t find anything.  Does anybody have any motherboard recommendations?  I plan to use a NVIDA card.

Jim

Offline pfile

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: 2016 November 28 15:02:03 »
i think one thing you can do is get a riser card for the SSD that will plug into an x4 PCIe slot. in fact i've heard the risers are better in general because the m.2 mezzanine sockets don't get a lot of airflow and when the SSD temperatures rise, the controllers throttle the IO performance to avoid thermal runaway. some people put little heatsinks on each memory and the controller on their m.2 SSDs to avoid this.

rob

Offline jimwaters

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: 2016 November 28 15:45:35 »
I have wondered about airflow around the M.2 cards and I/O throttling.  I will look into the risers.

Any recommendations on motherboards?  Gigabyte vs. MSI vs ...etc? I need x99 chip set, quad channel memory, RAID support ...etc

Offline pfile

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: 2016 November 28 16:02:44 »
my last 2 machines have been gigabyte motherboards (UD4P / UP5-TH) and they have been extremely reliable. one of them did a year essentially outside at SRO and it seems no worse for the wear.

i am long overdue for an upgrade and have not looked into what's currently the best, but i would not hesitate to buy another gigabyte motherboard.

rob

Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: 2016 November 28 16:04:11 »
I'm just about ready to commit to an ASUS motherboard, with an i7 and 32Gb of DDR4.


I already have 2 x 250Gb and 2 x 750GB of Crucial SSD (in a single 4-bay caddy that lives in a standard 3.5" front-panel slot) - so I'm not in the least bit interested in M2, nor am I interested in 'case-internal' RAID (after all, if the PC, or PSU 'blows' then you are probably going to toast off the RAID structure anyway. Instead I rely on external Gigabyte-LAN NAS drives (two of these, one in the observatory, and one in a concrete vault under the stairs - each is a 2-bay 2 x 2TB NAS). I also have 4 x 2TB single-drive 'clouds' - and I use a complex Acronis Backup to schedule cyclic bacups all around these drives - with a few other 1TB 'legacy' drives that I throw into an external USB3 drive caddy every so often just to backup data that then gets taken off-site.

The question I am having is what Graphics card to go for - perhaps someone with a really good insight into the inner workings of PI could advise whether a powerful Graphics GPU is necessary for PI - I don't use this PC for anything more complex than PI, so I don't want to waste money on peripherals that I don't need, or won'y use. Currently I have two nVidia cards in the machine, one driving the main, central, 28" monitor at 1920 x 1200, and the other driving both of the 19" 'side' monitors, each at 1200 x 768. I don;t (initially) plan to upgrade the monitors - because I 'like' the triple-screen real-estate that I have been working with for the last 8 years, and a single UHD 4K monitor - whilst nice'n'pretty'n'all - doesn't actually give me the three separate playing fields that I am used to (float a window off to a side screen, and then maximise it - in two mouse-actions)

Sooo - personally - I would suggest that you could look at an ASUS motherboard (at least to see if it matches your requirements). If you would like, I'll post the ASUS part number that I have had recommended (or even the full PC spec that I am mulling over).

Hope this helps.


=== UPDATE ===
The last motherboard was also an ASUS (PQ5 Deluxe) and , in the eight years that I have had the machine, it has only ever been switched off about 20 times (forr hardware modifications) - and that was running Vista 64 Home Edition (which was an operating system many have scoffed at, but which I found to be absolutely rock-solid, without one single 'hang' or Blue-Screen during that period - unlike Windows 7 64-bit Professional which has been a total nightmare since I foolishly decided to 'upgrade' back in June this year, or even Windows 10 64-bit Pro, which I managed to tolerate for precisely 72 hours before going back to Win7, and then taking an exacto knife to the Win10 DVD to ensure that I never made that mistake again!!).
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Offline msmythers

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: 2016 November 28 17:10:47 »
I thought I'd chime in on the graphics card side. A little while(few months now) someone asked about if Nvidia GPU usage was still in the plan for PI. Juan responded yes/maybe, but not a priority. So currently a high end graphics card doesn't buy any extra processing power other then powering multiple HD monitors.

With all that being said Nvidia did just release a new low end but not low GPU power chipset. The 1050 series. 2 Basic models, the 1050 and 1050Ti. The first has less cores and 2 GB of 128bit DDR5 ram. The Ti has more cores and 4GB of ram. Base US price is $109 and $140 from some manufactures. One other thing that caught my eye was HEVC video processing. These cards are based on the Pascal processor with Nvidia x.265 encoding built in. These cards are also low power cards, powered from the PCI bus only.

I bought the Ti based on maybe one day PI might use it but also as an easy GPU processor based x.265 video encoder. On my old AMD X6 3.7GHz Phenom system I went from 6fps at 1080p to 220fps encoding. Not a bad jump for the price. The card also supports 3 monitors at 7680x4320.

Mike

Offline jimwaters

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: 2016 November 28 18:03:54 »
Sorry for getting back into this thread late.  There’s nothing special about M.2 SSD’s.  My idea is to move the working directory into the RAID 0 SSD so I can get maximum computational throughput in PixInsight.  This is why I want quad-channel DDR4 2800MHz memory.  To maximize computational throughput and performance.  The RAID 0 SSD will be small (maybe 128GBytes) and only support PixInsight computational efforts.  The main disks will be 10K SATA rotational disks and a few SSD disks.

I can get the Core i7 10 Core CPU, M.2 SSD and PCIe SSD for 50 to 60% off through work so I want to build a very high performance desktop or tower PC.  Should I use M.2 SSD’s or get a PCIe SSD card?  Also from a PixInsight computational standpoint should I go with quad-channel memory or is dual-channel OK?  I have seen posts saying that PixInsight plans to use GPU in the future.  This would be great?

Offline tomb18

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: 2016 November 28 22:21:35 »
I can set up two crucial SSD's in Raid 0 and they will be less than half the speed of an Intel 750 nvme PCIe disk.
Forget the raid...at 2.6GB/s on an asus X99 Deluxe 2 motherboard you will blow away any conventional raid 0 SSD.  From what I hear they now have one over 3GB/s not bits but bytes per second.  A bit pricey but they do have specials now and then.  Forget about a 128gb raid 0 drive for pixinsight....that's barely scratching what you will need.  Get an Intel 750 1.3TB NVME PCIe drive....and if  your pockets are deep, get two of the intel 750's.  The Asus motherboard comes with an additional M2 daughter board however  I use the U.2 ports on the ASUS so the M.2 form factor is not an issue.  The U.2 ports support conventional SSD form factors in other words a disk in a 2.5" case.  The raid 0 intel setup can get you 5.6 gigabytes per second throughput.
Also forget a NAS other than for storage of data.  Consider that the best you will get is around 130MB/s via a network an SSD will far out perform it. Even with NIC teaming which is currently not supported for Windows 10. Not only that some operations such as drizzle integration will not work well over a network connection to a NAS.
As to graphics boards, any high end board will be fine you don't need anything in particular.  I use a NVidia 960 GTX which shows no signs of stress on a 4K monitor.  Now if they move to GPU processing, it might matter, but I have processed 97 24mp DSLR files with no issues on a system similar to what you are looking at but mines a hexa core not a deca core.  The system integrated the 97 files with no issues and it used about 27GB of ram in the process.  If anything just get more ram and don't worry about it.
« Last Edit: 2016 November 28 22:44:34 by tomb18 »

Offline jimwaters

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: 2016 November 29 08:35:34 »
tomb18 - Many thanks for the information!

Offline jkmorse

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: 2016 November 29 12:09:44 »
Jim,

Once you get the system you want, when setting up check back about setting up your preferences re swap files.  I have found a ramdisk to really speed things up, and then I also point to several swap locations on SSDs (64Gb locations should be fine, though I use 128Gb folders).  Check out this quote from Juan as a starter:

New Parallel Swap File Storage

To maximize availability of RAM for processing tasks, the processing history management and masking systems implemented in PixInsight are based on temporary disk swap files. Basically, a swap file is required at each processing step to store the previous image state, so you can undo/redo actions, carry out masking operations, and travel the processing histories of images arbitrarily.

When working with very large images, swap file access can be the most important bottleneck that compromises performance of the entire PixInsight platform. This is particularly relevant on 64-bit systems, where there is no practical limit to image sizes, which opens the door to really huge mosaics and high dynamic range stacks. Note that we are talking of disk swap files in the multi-gigabyte range.

Starting from version 1.4, PixInsight Standard uses parallel disk I/O operations to generate and maintain temporary swap disk files. When two or more *physical* disk drives are available, PixInsight can be configured to spread swap files on a set of physical disks (no specific limit), and read/write them through parallel threads executed concurrently.

The performance gain that can be achieved thanks to parallel disk I/O in PixInsight can be spectacular. For example, with just two Serial ATA 300 disks (not particularly fast drives), PixInsight can easily achieve data transfer rates above 500 and 140 MB/s, respectively for swap read and write operations. This allows working with very large images in PixInsight. For example, with four fast drives configured for parallel swap file storage, you can work with a 32-bit RGB image of 12000×12000 pixels and perform undo/redo operations almost in real time. Note that parallel disk access is even faster —and much more flexible, easier to configure and implement— than RAID 0 storage.

To use parallel swap file access with PixInsight, you need two or more independent, physical disk drives. Do not try to enable this feature using several directories or disk partitions on the same drive, since multiple parallel write operations performed on a single hard disk may be dangerous to the integrity of the drive.

To enable parallel swap file access, select the Edit > Global Preferences main menu option. On the left panel of the Preferences interface, select the Directories and Network item. You can specify a list of folders for swap file storage. However, as we have said, only specify folders on independent physical disk drives.


Note that for a Ramdisk, you can point to the same location several times (I point to mine 4 times before pointing to the swap locations on the separate SSDs on my system).

Best,

Jim
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Offline jimwaters

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Re: New PixInsight User – Need Desktop Computer Recommendations
« Reply #10 on: 2016 November 29 19:21:26 »
Thanks all.

Jim