Problem with TIF files

[davenash]

Hi,  I just registered with the forum.

I have been using Pixinsight LE 1.0.2.143 for a few months now, and generally am very pleased with it.

However I  have found that it frequently fails to open TIF files saved from K3CCDTools.  Note, it's not FITS files I have a problem with (I saw the web page about this), but TIF.  Is there any known issue with this?

I would use FITS except that PI LE doesn't seem to have any way to merge R,G,  and blue channel files into one - if I am wrong, could you point me in the right direction?

Finally, one more thing that would make PixInsight LE even better - the ability to  lay one image over another, and visually line them up (automatic registration would be *even better*) before applying pixel math to merge them.

Regards

Dave

[davenash]

I just discovered how to import channels.  I guess that means I can use R/G/B fits files instead.

Dave

[Juan Conejero]

Hello Dave,

Thank you. I'm happy PixInsight LE can be useful for you.

You can rest assured that PixInsight's TIFF support is 100% compliant with the TIFF 6.0 specification. This is guaranteed by the fact that our TIFF routines are based on LIBTIFF software library by Sam Leffler at Silicon Graphics.

It could be that the file you're trying to load has been incorrectly generated. One of the most frequent errors is lack of adequate TIFF tags to describe a RGB image properly. Could you please send me one of these TIFF files?

It's just amazing how many poor implementations are out there, especially considering that TIFF and FITS are two wonderfully documented formats.

I guess from your second message that you've already discovered the ImportChannels process of PixInsight LE. This process is quite rough, actually, but it works well to composite separate RGB channels. Using this process is quite straightforward; let me know if you need more info.

The next version, which will be the first public release of PixInsight Standard, will have image registration processes (manual, semi-automatic, and automatic registration), as well as a sophisticated channel merging/splitting process, including Fourier-based channel registration with subpixel accuracy.

There will be also a dynamic process implementing complex layered compositions. I cannot say more about this process, but it will be a very sophisticated and "surprising" thing for sure.

Thank you for using PixInsight LE.

Best,

[davenash]

Hi Juan, thanks for the reply.

I will try to get a smallish TIF file (actually I had a FIT problem this morning too -- so frustrating  :evil: ) because the one I was just working with is 11Mb zipped!

There will be also a dynamic process implementing complex layered compositions. I cannot say more about this process, but it will be a very sophisticated and "surprising" thing for sure.

I can't wait!  Is there an expected date for release of the standard edition (and how much is it likely to cost us?)

Dave

[davenash]

I've uploaded a zip file containing a couple of problem TIFs.  The one with "tif16" in the name works OK.  The other doesn't.

The file is at http://www.davesastro.co.uk/temp/k3_tifs.zip

I'm not sure what the difference is between these two formats, and I'm pretty sure that TIF16 fails sometimes too.

I'd be grateful if you could at least discover what's wrong with the one that does fail.  I can speak with the K3 developer if there is a problem with it.

Thanks

Dave

[Juan Conejero]

Hello Dave,

Thank you for the images.

I can open both of them without problems in LE 1.0.2.143. Both images have nonstandard TIFF fields with tag=317, which are simply ignored by PI. Other than that, they seem completely correct.

What version of PI LE are you running? Open the folder where you have the application installed (usually "C:\Archivos de programa\Pleiades Astrophoto\PixInsight LE") and look for the file "libtiff030507.dll". Right-click on this file and select the Properties option from the emerging menu. Select the Version tab. Right to "File Version" you should see 3.5.7.13. If you see other version number, then for some reason you're running an incorrect dll file. If this is the case, you should download the installation file again with the 1.0.2.143 update and reinstall. Please let me know.

Cheers,
Juan

[davenash]

Hi, Juan.

I have the right version of that dll.

I suspect the problem is related to the size of the TIFF file, because sometimes if I save a cropped version it works.  Could this be possible?

Dave

[Juan Conejero]

Hi Dave,

I suspect the problem is related to the size of the TIFF file, because sometimes if I save a cropped version it works.  Could this be possible?

It could be possible if the file is really big. That is, the size of the image could be a reason if you are near the limits of the available RAM. However, then this problem should also manifest with FITS files.

The current PI LE application always works in 32-bit floating point, which means that a RGB pixel needs 12 bytes of RAM (plus four bytes per additional alpha channel, if any). On the other hand, PI LE cannot handle memory addresses above 2 GB, so even if you have more RAM installed, PI LE will not be able to use it beyond the 2 GB limit. Windows may impose additional constraints when trying to allocate a huge contiguous block of memory.

How much RAM does your computer have? And what's the size of one of those problematic images? Could you upload one of those full-size TIFF files (zipped if appropriate) that is giving you problems? Obviously I am extremely interested in knowing what's going on with this problem.

Thanks
Juan

[davenash]

Hi, Juan

Sorry about the delay in replying here.

I am almost certain now that this issue is memory-related.  My laptop (running XP home) has 512 Mb of memory and I usually see the problem when I have been using other software - frequently K3CCDTools.  The images are normally 3072x2042 frames from my Canon EOS300D, although they are normally cropped slightly as a result of the alignment and stacking process.

Sometimes closing everything else before running PixInsight will help, but other times not.  Sometimes even rebooting doesn't seem to help.  I also see the problem with FITs files, but normally I don't use them.

I will make it a priority to add RAM, then hopefully the problem will go away.  I would point out that the error message is not very helpful, it just says something like "TIFF support: could not open Tiff file".  It would be nicer to have a more descriptive message!

Regards

Dave

[Carlos Milovic]

Hi Dave

Buying more RAM is always a good idea. Anyway, I think that you may have problems with the System's resources too. If you have not done this before, close every other program, including antiviruses (avoid connecting to internet in such moments).

[Juan Conejero]

Hello Dave,

My apologies for taking so long in getting back to you... been terribly busy with my development work...

Again thank you for your insights (hey, put a Pix before that and see what comes!  ). The problem is memory-related of course. I have good news: the new PixInsight is able to handle five different pixel sample formats: 8, 16, 32-bit integers, and 32, 64-bit floating point transparently. This indeed allows for a much more efficient usage of available resources. Well, and the 64-bits thing is sweet, too  :wink:

You're right about the TIFF error messages: they actually say nothing of value. I'll fix this.

Thank you for your support

By the way, am I confused (my neurones are a bit tired...), or you said you're a developer and were interested in having a look at our PCL (PixInsight Class Library)?

Juan

[davenash]

Hi, Juan

Thanks for the reply.  Good news about the error messages, and  I will be getting some RAM soon!

I am using PI LE more and more these days.  I can't wait for the full version...I'm getting impatient

By the way, will the full version have any way to define areas with the mouse and move them around, or copy and paste between images?

Regarding your last point, I actually am a software developer, although not in an image-processing or astronomy related field.  While I would probably find the PCL interesting, I don't think I would be using it any time soon as I just don't have the time.

Regards

Dave