Author Topic: Combining 1x1 and 2x2  (Read 9029 times)

Offline sreilly

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Re: Combining 1x1 and 2x2
« Reply #15 on: 2010 September 17 14:33:37 »
You make valid points as always Sander. I've been use to so much information from the likes of Rob Gendler and some other notable PS users that their imaging steps are somewhat ingrained. I can honestly say that I have not tried the ACDNR process and I'm not quite sure why. Don't you have a video on using this process?
Steve
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Offline Nocturnal

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Re: Combining 1x1 and 2x2
« Reply #16 on: 2010 September 17 14:38:54 »
Hi Steve,

sorry, I have no videos. I did talk about ACDNR in my API articles though. Check the pixinsight.com videos and Harry's. I'm sure there's something there. Despite all the bells/whistles on ACDNR it's easy to get 80% performance from it:

- select luminance mask for both Luminance and Chrominance tabs
- turn stddev up or down depending on the scale of your noise
- click the 'preview' checkbox in the luminance mask area
- use real time preview to tune your masking
- don't forget to enable/disable rtp (top left red icon in the RTP window) to switch back and forth between original and processed
- use a few previews to speed up RTP if you have a large image
Best,

    Sander
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Offline sreilly

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Re: Combining 1x1 and 2x2
« Reply #17 on: 2010 September 17 14:49:00 »
Sander,

I had downloaded all of Harry's videos and indeed there is one and I just finished watching it again. I do see the real potential strength in targeting just the area of noise by using masks, which are somewhat new to me. I've been using masks to some degree of success using HDRWavlets tool going after galaxy core details and leaving the stars alone. Same with sharpening. It's taking some time but I seem to get a new process to try out every week or so. I've 7 years of data that I can go back over and re-process with these new tools. I'm ashamed to even post some of those images now but at the time if it was focused and the stars reasonably round, I thought it was the greatest thing yet. Sort of like looking at the old TV shows that seemed so great when I was a younger man.......

Thanks,
Steve
www.astral-imaging.com
AP1200
OGS 12.5" RC
Tak FSQ-106ED
ST10XME/CFW8/AO8
STL-11000M/FW8/AO-L
Pyxis 3" Rotator
Baader LRGBHa Filters
PixInsight/MaxIm/ACP/Registar/Mira AP/PS CS5

Offline Nocturnal

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Re: Combining 1x1 and 2x2
« Reply #18 on: 2010 September 17 14:55:06 »
Hi Steve,

adding new techniques to your processing pipeline keeps things interesting. I generally don't go back to my old data unless I'm really sure I can improve it dramatically. I hope that my acquisition methods improve with my processing so while I'd probably do better on my old data I still have so much more recent stuff to do I'll just leave it be :)

If anything it shows how my work changed over the last 3 years. Hopefully for the better :)

In any case, never be ashamed to post your images. I sometimes hold back but we're all friends here and enjoy seeing each others work, good or bad. Most of it is good anyway :)
Best,

    Sander
---
Edge HD 1100
QHY-8 for imaging, IMG0H mono for guiding, video cameras for occulations
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Offline papaf

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Re: Combining 1x1 and 2x2
« Reply #19 on: 2010 September 20 00:06:50 »
Sander,
I realized something while looking through my images database and I would like to discuss it. Maybe I should start another thread?
In any case, I'll summarize my finding: I only tried using 2x2 color shots when my luminance consisted only of Ha images. So the stars shape was likely different more because of the narrowband factor than anything else?

Thanks! And sorry for the little hijack...

Fabio

Offline Nocturnal

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Re: Combining 1x1 and 2x2
« Reply #20 on: 2010 September 20 05:35:36 »
Hi Fabio,

sure, start a new thread.
Best,

    Sander
---
Edge HD 1100
QHY-8 for imaging, IMG0H mono for guiding, video cameras for occulations
ASI224, QHY5L-IIc
HyperStar3
WO-M110ED+FR-III/TRF-2008
Takahashi EM-400
PIxInsight, DeepSkyStacker, PHD, Nebulosity

Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: Combining 1x1 and 2x2
« Reply #21 on: 2010 September 22 16:52:54 »
Quote
I've been use to so much information from the likes of Rob Gendler and some other notable PS users that their imaging steps are somewhat ingrained

There has been discussion on the whole subject of 2x2 binning and 1x1L + 2x2RGB combination methods on various forums - notably those whose members are still die-hard PS users. From what I can remember, one argument goes along the lines of "why go to all the expense of purchasing a high-quality, high-resolution CCD imager and then only use it at 'half' its capability?" Another argument is "Will the addition of an L-layer really enhance your RGB data in the first place, assuming that you didn't Bin the RGB data at the time of acquisition?"

The way I look at it is, if you have acquired the best data your imaging equipment can obtain, why would you have done this at anything OTHER than 1x1? OK, so if it takes 2 minutes for you to download your gazillion Mp images after each exposure, then that is just a limitation of your acquisition system. But, to have invested all that cash on your gear, and then to run it at 'half-capacity' because 'time is limited', then Ithink it might be time to re-think imaging strategies.

As Sander says, there are a whole load of statistical reasons for NOT dumping a Lum layer onto your RGB data - especially as high resolution RGB data actually already INCLUDES that Lum data in the first place. And, when you consider that you may already be fighting with three colour channels that may be producing different star sizes (due to, for example, differing 'bloat' caused by differing CCD sensitivity in each channel), then introducing a FOURTH channel, with yet another differing star size to contend with, will just seem to aggrevate the situation further, IMHO.

Sure, like others, I followed the LRGB 'mantra' preached by others, but soon realised that: with an OSC it was a complete waste of time; with an OSC and a Mono camera it just became altogether too difficult to be worthwhile; and with a Mono camera alone it just wasn't needed - not with the Power of PI and ACDNR to assist.

On that basis, my next camera will be a simple OSC device, and I have no intention of worrying about the Lu channel as PI simply extracts and processes the luminance data 'on the fly', whenever a process requires this to be done.

Even if I had the luxury of also upgrading my Mono imager, and I chose to get a full set of narrowband filters, I still don't see a situation where I would have to struggle with FOUR channels. And, I am certainly not going to have to worry about that any time soon - not unless my Lotto numbers come up ::)
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

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