Author Topic: Color channel alignment, batch?  (Read 2528 times)

Offline Lammertus

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Color channel alignment, batch?
« on: 2017 August 11 04:49:10 »
Hello everybody,

This is my first post here and I would like to explain what I'm trying to do.

I use an  ASI1600MC-C nearly always binning 1 x 1 and have no problem
with aligning channels since they line up rather nice.
But when I use binning 2 x 2 things seem to change and I can see that channels
do not line up good enough so when stretching things you can see some weird
stars. ( Could this be a debayer problem? )
Lately I was imaging the Helix when at an altitud of <= 15º so likely there was
severe dispersion.
Using channelmatch I can move the channels so they line up well again and things improve.

My question:  Is there any way to do this in a batch, selecting all the frames and apply
                     the same adjustments per channel for all the images?

Thanks for your attention!!
Any feedback and/or help is highly apreciated!!

Mert

Offline Niall Saunders

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Re: Color channel alignment, batch?
« Reply #1 on: 2017 August 11 05:39:27 »
Hi Mert,

The first thought that I had was that 2x2 Binning of a CFA image effectively removes all of the colour information that would otherwise be contained in an equivalent 1x1 image. However, that thought depends a lot on how, or where,  the binning takes place.

If the binning takes place 'in the camera software', then it is conceivable that the manufacturer can put in place an algorithm that creates a 2x2 RAW image from the original full-resolution array. Conceivable, yes - but far from simple, and verging on the impractical.

In fact, it could even be argued that there is absolutely nothing to be gained by performing 2x2 (or any other kind of) binning in an OSC camera (except when dowload speed is an isuue during the pre-acquisition 'image framing' stage - which is alsmost always performed on a grey-scale image anyway). Al you really gain is noise - the very thing that imagers do everything they can to eliminate in the first place! And the one crucial thing that you lose, straight away, is the pixel resolution that you presumably paid big bucks for when you selected that particular camera.

The question that you really have to ask (yourself) is, "Why do I feel that binning my OSC data is needed?".

Sure, you hear of other imagers working with binned data - but they are (almost) exclusively 'mono' imagers. They have no issues with acquiring their colour data at a lower resolution - once they have built their colour image, they will be quite aggresive in their noise-reduction techniques, at least as far as their chrominance data is concerned. And, as a result, they will lose quite a bit of 'detail' because of that. Where they score is in the fact that they acquire full-resolution Luminance (and perhaps even NB) data. When they then re-integrate the Luiminance data with their Chrominance data, the 'missing' detail is replaced from the information in the Lum channel.

Finally, those 'wierd' stars that you are seeing - I would imagine that they are caused by the very fact that you are trying to re-align 2x2 binned OSC data. Just remember that, typically, an OSC camera has an array of pixels that are effectively grouped into 'super-pixels' - each of which is a 2x2 array of something like a Red pixel, two Green pixels and a Blue pixel. And, therein lies the problem (when it comes to 'aligning' the binned colour data, as you are trying to do) - which of those pixels is the 'centre' of the 2x2 array?

You also have issues such as the fact that the Red and Blue pixels do not have 'direct neighbours' of the same colour, and that there are two Green pixels for every 2x2 super-pixel. How should software deal with those issues.

No - in my humble and personal opinion, if you are using an OSC camera, then download the RAW data in its native, 1x1 binned, format. You avoid all the issues that I have mentioneed and that you have encountered.

However, as always, if there are folks out there who reqularly work with binned OSC data, and have a processing sequence that works for them, hopefully they might see this thread and post their feelings and share their methods.
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC

Offline oldwexi

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Re: Color channel alignment, batch?
« Reply #2 on: 2017 August 11 05:50:37 »
Hi Mert!
Concerning binning of OSC i see it the same way as Niall.

To your question:
Yes, ChannelMatch can be used on RGB-Images (in a batch way) using image container.
Do it often that way.

Gerald


Offline Lammertus

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Re: Color channel alignment, batch?
« Reply #3 on: 2017 August 11 06:43:29 »
Thanks Niall for explaining this in depth, makes a lot of sense what you have pointed out.
I use binning since it seems that I gain a lot of sensitivity when compared with binning 1x1
using the same exposure length ( typically 240 seconds ).
This camera IMHO burns the stars when doing 240 seconds and I loose the star color
information.
When I compare with shorter exposures the stars have good color information but of
course the faint galaxies and nebulae need much more time.

Maybe I have to go for shorter exposure time using binning 1 x 1 and taking many more
frames to get to the same result.

Thanks again, much apreciated!!
Mert

Offline Lammertus

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Re: Color channel alignment, batch?
« Reply #4 on: 2017 August 11 06:45:04 »
Hi Gerald,

Thanks for the tip, I will try and use that tool and see if I learn
how to use it.

Regards,
Mert

Offline Lammertus

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Re: Color channel alignment, batch?
« Reply #5 on: 2017 August 13 14:34:00 »
The result was a big improvement, using the image container and
geometry->channelmatch on all the frames an finaly stack them.

Thanks again!!
Mert