Author Topic: The end of my data or the end of my PixInsight knowledge ......  (Read 3470 times)

Offline John_Gill

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Hi,

Would anyone like to take a look at a couple of my images and advise on how to improve either the raw data or the processed data (without purchasing a new scope, mount or camera).  I am really just wanting to improve my photos.  I must say that PixInsight has improved my results by 1000% already but I am sure there is always room for improvement :)

I am currently using a Celestron 8" EdegeHD on an AVX mount, Canon 600d DSLR and ZWO optice for auto-guiding.

Regards
John
APM 107/700 apo on CGX mount
ZWO Optics - Autoguiding
ZWO1600mm and filters
... when there are no clouds ...

Offline Niall Saunders

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Hi John,

In fact those two example images are pretty decent - I would have been delighted to have achieved that myself only a few years ago.

However - just having someone 'look at' your final result won't (necessarily) help identify areas that could be improved, or methods that could be modified.

Perhaps you could initially consider creating a breakdown of the method you use to acquire your raw data - including the number of, and exposure time of, all your raw subs (from calibration frames to light frames). And, don't forget to indicate the 'order' in which you acquired the calibration and light frames, as well as whether you believe that the DSLR CCD Temperature might have been influenced during these stages.

Then you could describe for us what your initial workflow has been - in terms of the image calibration stages.

Just taking the time to commit all of that 'to screen' might actually make you realise that you have 'missed a step' or even 'made a mistake' during the acquisition phase. This, alone, can pay huge dividends (I know as much from personal experience  :-\ ).

After that, then we can start thinking about the processes that you have implemented as you start to work on your 'Master Light' - for example, I typically have a seven-stage (-ish) process that takes my initial MasterLight from the Linear world, into the Non-Linear world. Only then do I start thinking about noise reduction and contrast enhancement or colour saturation enhancement. And then, finally, I frame and crop, and convert to JPG, to suit display on my 65" 4K UHD TV - which is just about the only place that I ever 'show' my images.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC

Offline RickS

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Hi John,

The M83 has an overall greeny blue colour cast and the background is a bit bright.  You should be able to improve this with better processing.

The Eta Car looks pretty reasonable.  I think you mainly need more data on this one to get the noise down some more (an application of SCNR might help too.)

Cheers,
Rick.

Offline John_Gill

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Thanks guys,  I will put all the suggestion in place but it might take a few days as we are now heading into winter and the clouds and rain have disappeared, so most of my time is spent imaging a few galaxies and nebula.  I am trying to get 2-5 hours of data for each target at various ISO's and exposures.  Also, I think I have fixed the AVX mount, as I am now able to get 10 minute exposures.

Look up
John
APM 107/700 apo on CGX mount
ZWO Optics - Autoguiding
ZWO1600mm and filters
... when there are no clouds ...

Offline Buzz

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More exposure is always a good thing. I'm in semi-rural England and I'm doing 20-40 hours per target to overcome skynoise.
regards
Chris

Offline John_Gill

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@ Buzz, good grief, 20-40 hours ... wow!!  I am now going to 4 hours of total exposures on various targets and seeing the benefits.  My latest target(s) are the 2 Antennae Galaxys (NGC 4038 and 4039) and I am still battling to capture the faint "antennae" I just worked out that this is around 5 hours ...

Look up
John
APM 107/700 apo on CGX mount
ZWO Optics - Autoguiding
ZWO1600mm and filters
... when there are no clouds ...

Offline RickS

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If you're going after dim stuff, like the tails of NGC 4038/4039, then you'll need lots of integration time (unless you have an unaffordably huge aperture with a fast focal ratio.)  It's sad, but that's how Physics works.  Bright targets you can do more quickly.  A few hours is often enough to do a reasonable job on something like Omega Cen.

Where are you imaging from, John?  Do you have reasonably dark skies?  When I started out I was happy doing as many targets as I could in a short time but these days I'm content to put a lot of effort into a single image and trying to go for quality rather than quantity.  I have done narrowband images up around 80 hours or more.

Cheers,
Rick.

Offline John_Gill

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Hey Rick,

I image from Durban, South Africa (not quite "darkest Africa").  I am about 15 kms outside the city but have great neighbors and I am protected by hills from most local light.  I also started out doing many targets in one night, exciting but not great results.  About a year ago I then re-evaluated what I was trying to achieve, decided to moved to PixInsight and now mostly do at least 2 - 4 hours intergration time.  NGC 4038/4039 is now at 5 plus hours and I am starting to see the tails.  In the next 2 weeks I might get another few hour intergration and then sadly the Antennae's will disappear below my horizon. ;)

My biggest issue (and I have a few) is when doing noise reduction (MLT & ACDNR) the process seems to remove some of the faint "tails".  So the processing is many hours of trial and error ....   :D :D :D

Look up
John 
APM 107/700 apo on CGX mount
ZWO Optics - Autoguiding
ZWO1600mm and filters
... when there are no clouds ...

Offline RickS

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Sounds like a decent site, John.  I'm in Brisbane, Australia close to the city centre so narrowband is all I can do without going for a long drive.

MureDenoise does a great job of linear noise reduction without clobbering your signal but I'm not sure how well it would work with a DLSR.

I could probably do a much better job on the processing now but here's my attempt at NGC 4038/4039 from 5 years ago: http://www.astrobin.com/full/11940/0/

Cheers,
Rick.

Offline John_Gill

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WOW! stunning image of the Antennae galaxys so I guess more time and effort is required on my part.  I will try the MureDenoise and see if I get some better results.

Thanks
John
APM 107/700 apo on CGX mount
ZWO Optics - Autoguiding
ZWO1600mm and filters
... when there are no clouds ...

Offline RickS

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Thanks, John.  Keep at it and you'll keep improving.  I'm horrified by some of my older images  :D

Offline Niall Saunders

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Hi Rick - I think that 'horrified' is the wrong word - I find mtself more than a little bit 'amused' when I look back at my early raw data (there were no 'final images' to consider - none of the processes and packages that I had at my disposal in those days could extract anything from the raw data sets !!)

But - that is what I actually enjoy about this hobby (wait: isn't a hobby supposed to be something that you 'enjoy', not something that leaves you foaming at the mouth whilst hurling abuse at a PC monitor that simply will not create an APOD when you press that little blue truangle thingummy-jig?). Yes, the enjoyment comes from all those tiny little iterative steps that we do, each building on the steps that we have already learned and mastered, each gradually leading us towards a final image that, just like all our previous efforts, we can dump somewhere on our myriad hard-drives, never to be looked at again - allowing us to wrap up warm for the night as we head on out under a clear starry sky to 'try again'.
Cheers,
Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, UK

Altair Astro GSO 10" f/8 Ritchey Chrétien CF OTA on EQ8 mount with homebrew 3D Balance and Pier
Moonfish ED80 APO & Celestron Omni XLT 120
QHY10 CCD & QHY5L-II Colour
9mm TS-OAG and Meade DSI-IIC