PixInsight Forum (historical)
PixInsight => Tutorials and Processing Examples => Topic started by: pmesquita on 2012 November 29 07:24:45
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Hello all,
after my previous frustrated outburst I finally cooled down and started to listen (bought them) to warrens videos.
I have encountered my 1st obstacle on Batch Processing and I can't seem to find any Canon official info on this: finding out which my 600D Bayer pattern.
On Warrens' video #7 The De-bayer area of Batch *Processing asks for a choice of the Bayer pattern of my camera. It's a Canon 600d and the drop box on PI has 4 options (RGGB, BGGR, GBRB, GRBG)
On the box below, in the same section, I need to choose one of three Be-bayer methods too:
SUPER PIXEL, BILINEAR AND VNG
can someone help me with this? Maybe there's a website that tells me what the Bayer pattern on my 600D is...
cheers and thatnks for reading
Paulo
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Hi,
this method can be used with any debayer software, including PI:
http://qhy8.wikispaces.com/How+do+I+verify+my+colors+are+correct%3F
As for the correct method you'll probably want to try VNG and Bilinear and see how they compare for your data. If there was one optimal way to do it for every case then that would be the only method provided.
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Hello again,
thanks for the tip. I did the easy part: photographing your three color squares as you said to do. After that I was lost. I'm not at all familiar with DSS (struggling with PI is enough:-)))...and I have now 3 CR2 images with me but I don't understand on how to de-bayer the Green, Red and Blue images on PI.
I op+en the images, I go to Batch de-bayer...but then the menu asks me to choose a mosaic...and that's exactly my initial problem...I don't know which mosaic pattern is my 600D correct one.
I'm really stuck on this one and I'd like to do exactly as Warren is saying on his video.
cheers
paulo
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I'm rather new to using PI myself, and had trouble finding anywhere online what the bayer pattern is for my T3i (600D), but I noticed that when PI imports my RAW files the process console shows that PI sees the pattern as RGGB. That is what I have been using.
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As I said, the method can be used with any debayer software. I wrote it for DSS but it can be used with PI as well.
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Hello again,
thanks for the tip. I did the easy part: photographing your three color squares as you said to do. After that I was lost. I'm not at all familiar with DSS (struggling with PI is enough:-)))...and I have now 3 CR2 images with me but I don't understand on how to de-bayer the Green, Red and Blue images on PI.
I op+en the images, I go to Batch de-bayer...but then the menu asks me to choose a mosaic...and that's exactly my initial problem...I don't know which mosaic pattern is my 600D correct one.
I'm really stuck on this one and I'd like to do exactly as Warren is saying on his video.
cheers
paulo
If I understand what Nocturnal is doing here.... Once you have the three (R,G,B) RAW files then you want to load them into PI (you need to set the RAW format to not interpolate or debayer "http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=1351;image (http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=1351;image)"). Then you can use the DeBayer Process to debayer the three images right in PI without saving new files (BatchDebayer Script). The three images should look Red, Green and Blue respectively if you picked the right patter in the Debayer process. If they don't look R,G&B then undo and try a different Bayer pattern.
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it's RGGB. all canon cameras are RGGB.
as for debayer methods, i suppose that's a personal choice - whatever yields the best results on the particular DSO you have shot.
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By the way, in the RAW format preferences, I actually use the "RAW Bayer CFA" option versus the "RAW Bayer RGB" so that PI imports them into a single monochrome/grayscale versus separate RGM planes, but the DeBayer process, I believe, should debayer either the CFA or RGB Bayer images. I'm not at home to try this on my computer with PI, but I hope that I am telling you the right things.
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it's RGGB. all canon cameras are RGGB.
as for debayer methods, i suppose that's a personal choice - whatever yields the best results on the particular DSO you have shot.
Thanks pfile for the confirmation... I thought they were RGGB.
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When you do the STF, try unlinking the channels (it's one of the icons on the left hand side of the STF dialog box).
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There are 4 debayer options. Two are clearly wrong as they leave a checker pattern so that leaves only 2 options. It should not be a big deal to figure out which one to use. After debayering your colors will suck (for lack of a better word). You can expect your images to be green because DSLRs and most OSC sensors are optimized for green.
Learn about the powerful color correction processes PI offers. Debayering will -not- get you natural color.
http://carpephoton.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31
and
http://qhy8.wikispaces.com/How+do+I+verify+my+colors+are+correct%3F
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hello again,
I really need help on this. I've tried everything and the linear image comes out green after Image Integration:
1 - I've uninstalled PI and re-installed
2 - I've tried Star Ilignment with all 4 of the bayer mosiac formats
3 - I've tried Image Integration with all 4 of the bayer mosiac formats
4 - I've tried Star Alignment + Image Integration with all 4 of the bayer mosiac formats
finally I went to my 1st (published here) M42 and tried the entire process again...the linear image came out green (for the 20th time). So I decided to place two pics here:
One of the original 1st M42 with a STF stretch on the linear photo after Image Integration (reddish result...normal with defiltered DSLR)
....and One of the original 1st M42 with a STF stretch on the linear photo after Image Integration...and with my GREEN PROBLEM THAT SHOWED UP LAST WEEK AND THAT I CAN'T GER RID OF!!!!!
PLEASE CAN ANYONE HELP ME GET THE DEFAULY SETUP BACK????
Desperately,
Paulo
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Hallo Paulo!
Using the Canon 600D - i use "RGGB" in Debayer of PI to debayer
ALL my images. Includes terrestical. It works.
So, take a raw image of M42
run Debayer with RGGB
Unlink(!!!) the RGB butto in STF as mentioned by chris_todd
press A in STF und you should have temporary the correct color in the single image...
After that do the same with an calibrated image to check if there is an issue in the calibration process.
Aloha
Gerald
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Try to uncouple the three channels in STF (Button on the top left of STF), then hit the A (automatic) button. Note that this is only a temporary change. If you want to make it permanent, you need to do a similar thing with HistogramTransform.
Georg
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Hello again.
I'm quite familar with the PI STF group and ungroup feature. i've used it quite a bit by now. And with the HST conversion. There is another problem here. The Auto SFT funcion when PI is "normal will always give me reddish images like pic one. Pic 2 is an aberation. When I free the green button and try to make it dissapear I get the weirdest squarish shapes on the background of the image. Like a soccer goal net...seriously!
There is some config that I changed and that I cant seem to get back to default...and I've spent almost a week on this. Its very frustrating...even the stars are green to a point where all STF, Color calibrarion, and HST are totally useless....
I'm still in the dark here....
Cheers
Paulo
Try to uncouple the three channels in STF (Button on the top left of STF), then hit the A (automatic) button. Note that this is only a temporary change. If you want to make it permanent, you need to do a similar thing with HistogramTransform.
Georg
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I'm quite familar with the PI STF group and ungroup feature
You've said this before but both your samples indicate that the channels are still linked (the upper left icon with three squares)
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If erverything else fails, upload one of your images and let us have a look! (TIF or FITS format)
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They are linked because I wanted to show the Auto SFT stretch on both - before and after the mess I mane with the PI config (somewhere). Tomorrow I'll unlink both and show exactly the results. It 'll be a horror movie :-)... M horror ovie.
Cheers
Paulo
I'm quite familar with the PI STF group and ungroup feature
You've said this before but both your samples indicate that the channels are still linked (the upper left icon with three squares)
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can you post the integrated (32-bit fits) file somewhere?
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Hello again,
I’m really getting desperate here. I followed all the advice (untick the aggregate icon on STF, try all Debayer formats) and I still can’t get proper linear images after the Star Alignment and Image Integration (Harry’s videos).
I GET PI ON PSYCHEDELIC MUSHROOMS!!!
I’m serious. Take a look at the screens I captured:
Photo Problem #1 – a zoom in on the pixels of a processed photo with Image Integration. Instead of getting the blurry color RGB mix effect of when we magnify a deep space photo, I get the pixels in a square grid.
Photo Problem #2 – This is my 1ss photo ever – m42 - (published a couple of weeks ago) only after image integration and with STF done at that time (I saved the Process). No problem.
Photo Problem #3 – This is my (same) 1ss photo ever – m42 - (published a couple of weeks ago) only after image integration and with STF done TODAY!!!. Big problem.
Photo Problem #4 (#4 & #5 are in the same phoot here...(the 4th oneposted ) – This is my 4th photo ever – M1 - (published a couple of weeks ago) only after image integration and with STF done at that time (I saved the Process). No problem.
Photo Problem #5 – This is my (same) 4th photo ever - M1 - (published a couple of weeks ago) only after image integration and with STF… done TODAY, and tested with all the possible combinations of Debayer!!!. Big psychedelic problem.
I just don’t know what else to do. It is clear that somewhere during Star Alignment and/or Image Integration the Bayer matrix was wrongly programmed by me when I tried to do the Batch processing script.
SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE I MESSED UP!!! And the worst part is that I’ve been trying for 10 days now to make PI default again ( I even uninstalled the program and re-installed it) …but it must have saved the User config somewhere on my laptop…
Please will someone look at these pictures and figure out what went wrong and how to fix it???
Thanks
Paulo
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You still did not post any example files. Maybe something is wrong with the way you ask questions. Apparently it is difficult for the community to diagnose the problems with the information you provide. So change that, and chances are you will get help.
Georg
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Ok, I will upload some files onto WeTransfer and publish the link here.
What do you suggest that I upload:
How many lights? Each light is Cr2 with about 20MB.
I'll send two: M42 which I already processed successfully (but can't repeat that success now)
And M77 (one of the ones that I tried to process after messing up the PI config....stupid me...:-(((
Is this Ok?
Cheers
Paulo
You still did not post any example files. Maybe something is wrong with the way you ask questions. Apparently it is difficult for the community to diagnose the problems with the information you provide. So change that, and chances are you will get help.
Georg
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Here are the CR2 and .fit files of M42 and M77 for download and analysis. They area all in a ZIP file on the link below:
http://wtrns.fr/4dAnaLaWWeQRvg
I hope someone can make head or tails from all this. It's a complete mystery to me...I just know that somewhere along the line I musr«t have altered the Bayer config in a way that even uninstalling PI and re-installing it...the problem persists. I suppose W7 has some user file stored away in the Registry with this fawlty PI config that I inadvertidly did.
If you magnifi the fawlty .fit file that is with the others in this download...you'll see a mismatched RGB grid. That tells me that the RGB mosaic is set wrong...but I have no clue as to where to set it right on PI...
cheers...and enjoy the puzzle that is driving me crazy for the las two weeks...:-)
Paulo
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Your CR2 files debayer just fine (RGGB), not a lot of signal and horrid vignetting aside so it is something in the stacking.
Are you using any calibration files?
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PI does not use Window's registry system. It stores its own preferences in a cross-platform, OS-independ way. You can go back to factory defaults if you reset PI's configurations by starting the application with the Ctrl key pressed. A window will appear asking you to confirm that.
Also, try to use grayscale CFA images instead of that RGB composition. You are just wasting space.
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THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! THANK YOU CARLOS!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D...
The Ctrl button soultion was the key!!! You have saved the day. I did what you suggested and all is back to normal. I also found out that the issue was on step #1 (star Alignment) of Harry's videos. The wrong config I did somewhere along the line was affecting right the 1st fase of the processing. Image Integration had nothing to do with it. I'm already processing other sessions I have in store since three weeks ago...thanks to you!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
Can you elaborate on the "grayscale CFA"...I have no idea what it means. Btw, I use a modded Canon 600D.
cheers and many thanks
Paulo
PI does not use Window's registry system. It stores its own preferences in a cross-platform, OS-independ way. You can go back to factory defaults if you reset PI's configurations by starting the application with the Ctrl key pressed. A window will appear asking you to confirm that.
Also, try to use grayscale CFA images instead of that RGB composition. You are just wasting space.
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I'm still too "green" (not a pun on the greenish tint of my - now over - problem fits.) and i don't know what you mean. Are you referring to Darks, flats and Bias? I did have this problem when I tried the batch script in an attempt to subtract some darks (1st attempt). But ow I'm terrified of the dreaded Batch processing script (trauma).
I'm actually trying to understand if there's another PI tool to subtract my master dark ( did star align on the dark files) from each light. This is how you do it, right?
cheers
paulo
Your CR2 files debayer just fine (RGGB), not a lot of signal and horrid vignetting aside so it is something in the stacking.
Are you using any calibration files?
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... I also found out that the issue was on step #1 (star Alignment) of Harry's videos...
Just that we can learn from your faults: Which exact setting was wrong?
Other comments:
- in your M42 image, I see some artifacts that might come from a badly aligned image (or an image that should not be part of the integration). I recommend to check your aligned image stack manually before integrating.
- You definitely need to use calibration (dark,bias,flat). I doubt that many of PI's mechanism can work properly with images as badly vignetted as yours. Should you not want to use the BatchPreProcessing script, this thread http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=2570.0 should give you an idea on how to do it. Beware: It is definitely easier to use the script.
Georg
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I still don't know what went wrong...no clue...except the suspicion I misconfigured the bayer mosaic somewhere along the line when I tried the batch processing sequence.
The vignetting I assume is from the F2 ration on a a C11...it's literally a light bucket.
A question:
1 - how do I check my aligned image stack manually before integrating?
And thanks for the link on the tutorial. I'm going to read through it and learn some more. I'm not sure I want to give up on the batch processing script altogether. I'm just afraid to press the wrong button again.
The reason for me to opt for the batch processing was to - for the 1st - create a master dark and subtract it from each light. And all went wrong.
I need to learn on how to create the master dark and then do the subtraction. From what I saw, the batch processing script does all this automatically, right?
cheers
paulo
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1. How to check your aligned images: Just load them into PI and look at them. You can select multiple images in the "Open Copy.." dialog, or you can drag&drop them from Explorer to the PI desktop. There is also an Animation script that can be helpful - see scripts menu.
2. The BatchPreProcessing script does everything that is needed for calibrating your images - provided you give it bias/dark/flat frames.
Georg
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Georg,
does the BatchPreProcessing automatically subtract the master dark from each CR2 light file before the Image integration?
if so, then I really need to go back to The BatchPreProcessing. I hope I don't get another debayer surprse pattern :-)
cheers
paulo
1. How to check your aligned images: Just load them into PI and look at them. You can select multiple images in the "Open Copy.." dialog, or you can drag&drop them from Explorer to the PI desktop. There is also an Animation script that can be helpful - see scripts menu.
2. The BatchPreProcessing script does everything that is needed for calibrating your images - provided you give it bias/dark/flat frames.
Georg
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Yes, of course. It does everything that is necessary for image calibration, including bias subtraction, dark scaling, dark subtraction, flat division
Georg
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Then I'll go for a second round. i always have the emergency parachute...CTRL...button...hehehe.
Thanks Georg for all your time and help.
Cheers
Paulo
Yes, of course. It does everything that is necessary for image calibration, including bias subtraction, dark scaling, dark subtraction, flat division
Georg
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1. How to check your aligned images: Just load them into PI and look at them. You can select multiple images in the "Open Copy.." dialog, or you can drag&drop them from Explorer to the PI desktop. There is also an Animation script that can be helpful - see scripts menu.
2. The BatchPreProcessing script does everything that is needed for calibrating your images - provided you give it bias/dark/flat frames.
Georg
i use the blink process to check my subs. it basically makes a movie out of all the images and bad subs stand out pretty easily.
for more advanced analysis you can find the SubframeSelector script here in the forums and do batch FWHM analysis of all your subs. it's a great script.
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pfile, I did a forum search for subframeselector and "sub frame selector" and the only message that came up is your current post. Do you have a URL for the script thread containing this script - sounds interesting and helpful?
Thanks,
Craig
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Can you elaborate on the Blink process please? is it a tool on PI?...newbie here...:-)
cheers
paulo
1. How to check your aligned images: Just load them into PI and look at them. You can select multiple images in the "Open Copy.." dialog, or you can drag&drop them from Explorer to the PI desktop. There is also an Animation script that can be helpful - see scripts menu.
2. The BatchPreProcessing script does everything that is needed for calibrating your images - provided you give it bias/dark/flat frames.
Georg
i use the blink process to check my subs. it basically makes a movie out of all the images and bad subs stand out pretty easily.
for more advanced analysis you can find the SubframeSelector script here in the forums and do batch FWHM analysis of all your subs. it's a great script.
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pfile, I did a forum search for subframeselector and "sub frame selector" and the only message that came up is your current post. Do you have a URL for the script thread containing this script - sounds interesting and helpful?
Thanks,
Craig
i think it's in the thread for PSFEstimation, since it's an offshoot of that script.
yep -
http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=4010.msg33616#msg33616
rob
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Can you elaborate on the Blink process please? is it a tool on PI?...newbie here...:-)
cheers
paulo
yes, Blink is a process in PI. you load all the images you're interested in into the process, then click either the autohistogram button (if the illumination is very different) or the STF button (if the illuminations are similar), set a speed, and play the movie.
there is also a script called Blink but it's obsoleted by the process, which is faster.
don't forget to "close all images" before closing Blink as otherwise all the images will still be held in memory.
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The Blink process is called Animation 2.95 in PI.
Also, I recommend you learn to use the search functionality of the forum. This will answer many of your questions.
Georg
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Also, I recommend you learn to use the search functionality of the forum. This will answer many of your questions.
....I'm getting there...I'm getting there...this 52 year old hard disk of a brain has some bad sectors....need formatting. :-))))
I've just posted my 5 th pic..or should I say my 1st pic post apocalypse?
cheers
Paulo
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The Blink process is called Animation 2.95 in PI.
Also, I recommend you learn to use the search functionality of the forum. This will answer many of your questions.
Georg
whoops, sorry, yep. it's Animation.
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I've just tried it out and it's quite neat.
...the good news...I didn't mess anything up :-)))
cheers
PAULO
The Blink process is called Animation 2.95 in PI.
Also, I recommend you learn to use the search functionality of the forum. This will answer many of your questions.
Georg
whoops, sorry, yep. it's Animation.
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I wanted to see what I could do with the M42 data despite missing calibration. Here is what I got going into integration and stretch, but not beyond this (e.g. noise reduction):
- load CR2 files into Animate script. Identify image LIGHT_25s_400iso_+24c_1007stdev_20121109-02h17m48s878ms.CR2 as unusable because it has double exposure
- Align images with default settings in StarAlignment
- Stack images with ImageIntegration, using Average, No Weighting, no rejection
- Crop image not to include the border of the stacked area
- Simulate Bias subtraction with DBE: Place 4 points into the dark corners of the image, correct by subtraction. Need to set tolerance to 10 for this.
- Simulate Flat division with DBE: Place sample points carefully across the image, avoding stars and nebula, correct by division.
- Use STF to get visual impression, see screenshot left. Now compare this to the result immediately after stacking (without "pseudo" calibation) on the right. In the "calibrated" version, you still see some of the artifacts that could have been avoided with proper calibration. Nevertheless, it is a start...
Just an experiment.
Georg
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Hey Georg,
this is very good help. I have a troublesome M78 and I'm going to apply this technique you just taught me. Thank you very much, you really brought my 1st M42 to proper values.
Thanks a million
Paulo