PixInsight Forum (historical)

PixInsight => General => Off-topic => Topic started by: Nigel Ball on 2010 August 23 08:34:54

Title: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nigel Ball on 2010 August 23 08:34:54
Hi all

I'v ebeen imaging seriously for about a year nowand have used most of software packages out there

I've recently downloaded PI v1.6 trial and inital impressions are that it is a powerful package with a steep learning curve. It reminds me of oen of our own rela time contorl packages - 'the answers is yes, now what did you want to do?'

I'm really into narrowband and am interested in using the wavelet technology to extract additional information. After one day I've managed to stack and combine my wide field Ha images and then completely screw it up with the ATrousWavelet  :D

Anyway I'm sure I'll need your help along the way

I have a website at http://nigelaball.zenfolio.com/

Nigel

PS Does anybody offer online tutorials - I found this was a great way to learn packages quickly and efficiently?
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Niall Saunders on 2010 August 23 08:43:20
Hi Nigel, and welcome aboard.

I'm not too clear on what you mean by 'offline tutorials' - can you clarify that?

Harry has some excellent Video Tutorials on his website (see the Tutorials section of the Forum), and the main website also refers to several tutorials, both 'written' and 'video'

To date there are no CDs/DVDs available - not that I am aware of, anyway.

Although my personal PI skills are limited, I am always happy to offer an introductory 'driving lesson' if you are willing to download the free TeamViewer remote control package onto your PC (and if I have the free time available :() - but it sounds as if you might not need that ;)

Bear in mind though, that the best place to ask ANY questions is here on the Forum.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nigel Ball on 2010 August 23 09:07:57
Niall

Thanks for the quick response

I've watched all of Harry's Beginners video tutorial and they have been a great help

The 'driving lesson' is exactly what I'm referring to although I've used LogMeIn and Skype for audio in the past - over the pond!

As there are no manuals of instructional DVD's available yet I think this would be the most efficient way of getting up to speed.

I'm really interested in investigating the use of the Wavelet technology on my images as I believe I have acquired some good data over the past few months

Nigel
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Jack Harvey on 2010 August 23 09:33:26
Nigel  I am no wavelet expert but have managed to get enhanced resolution with the Atrous Wavelet tool (check Thor's Helmet here http://www.noao.edu/astronomers.php)  Here is something to try.  First make a fair sized preview of part of the image you wish to enhance and be sure to include some stars so you can see if your tool is causing star damage (if so make a star mask and invert it and apply to protect the stars)  Use the defaults except for on the first layer select a bias of 0.1 to 0.2 for a start.  add generous amount of noise reduction by checking the box and slider to .8 or so.  FOr the second layer of wavelts try .15 - .25 and less noise redction say .4.  Have deringing checked for both levels.  Using the Live preview enabled you can see the changes on your preview live.  SO you may want to play a bit with bias settings and then apply to the preview to evaluate further and then to the image.

You could also apply the HDR wavelets by experimenting with Luminance only and w or w/o a Lum mask at the defaults.  Again a inverted star mask can save destructive changes to the stars.  Good Luck
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nigel Ball on 2010 August 23 09:59:00
Nigel  I am no wavelet expert but have managed to get enhanced resolution with the Atrous Wavelet tool (check Thor's Helmet here http://www.noao.edu/astronomers.php)  Here is something to try.  First make a fair sized preview of part of the image you wish to enhance and be sure to include some stars so you can see if your tool is causing star damage (if so make a star mask and invert it and apply to protect the stars)  Use the defaults except for on the first layer select a bias of 0.1 to 0.2 for a start.  add generous amount of noise reduction by checking the box and slider to .8 or so.  FOr the second layer of wavelts try .15 - .25 and less noise redction say .4.  Have deringing checked for both levels.  Using the Live preview enabled you can see the changes on your preview live.  SO you may want to play a bit with bias settings and then apply to the preview to evaluate further and then to the image.

You could also apply the HDR wavelets by experimenting with Luminance only and w or w/o a Lum mask at the defaults.  Again a inverted star mask can save destructive changes to the stars.  Good Luck

Thanks Jack

The RealTime Preview clinched it

I've managed to produce a half decent image

Thanks  :D



Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Niall Saunders on 2010 August 23 10:14:43
Quote
The 'driving lesson' is exactly what I'm referring to

Well, I would be happy to help. TeamViewer is all I use nowadays, plus Skype for general A/V 'chat'

A driving lesson can help you get up to speed with all the little time-saving shortcuts - which are often present in various video tutoria;s, but not necessarily 'explained' or 'mentioned'. Even now, after year's of use, I still learn new shortcuts watching others at work!!

Cheers,
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nocturnal on 2010 August 23 10:17:43
Hi Nigel,

welcome to the PI forums! I've not yet become comfortable with Atrous either and I've used PI for quite a while. So don't feel bad about being a bit in the dark there. I think it's one of the more complex processes PI offers. In my experience HDRWaveletTransform is much easier to get a handle on. No RTP but with a few previews it's easy to experiment and find the combination you like. See my articles in Astro Photo Insights for a complete walkthrough of a PI process flow. I need to talk to Al and see if I can publish those articles on my own site but at the same time I think that an API subscription is well worth the few $$ it costs, even when I exclude my own articles :)
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nigel Ball on 2010 August 23 10:37:42
Hi Nigel,

welcome to the PI forums! I've not yet become comfortable with Atrous either and I've used PI for quite a while. So don't feel bad about being a bit in the dark there. I think it's one of the more complex processes PI offers. In my experience HDRWaveletTransform is much easier to get a handle on. No RTP but with a few previews it's easy to experiment and find the combination you like. See my articles in Astro Photo Insights for a complete walkthrough of a PI process flow. I need to talk to Al and see if I can publish those articles on my own site but at the same time I think that an API subscription is well worth the few $$ it costs, even when I exclude my own articles :)

Thanks Sander, I do subscribe to AstroPhotoInsight and will look a the appropriate issues

Nigel
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nocturnal on 2010 August 23 10:58:26
Excellent! Let me know what you think of them.
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Harry page on 2010 August 23 11:35:45
Hi Nigel

( yes another brit  :D)

It seems that there is a call for more info / videos past my newbie ones  ;D 

So I need to get my act together and do some , just been a bit bust work wise sorry

Anyway welcome and ask away

Harry
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nigel Ball on 2010 August 23 12:00:27
Thanks Harry

I see you are in Stamford - the home of Blackstone  ;)
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Harry page on 2010 August 23 12:03:44
Hi

Yes now sadly no longer exists  :'(  My farther was a electrical engine tester there for 35 years !

For non stamford people it used to make big engines


Harry
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: ammcdavid on 2010 August 23 18:31:13
Quote
The 'driving lesson' is exactly what I'm referring to

Well, I would be happy to help. TeamViewer is all I use nowadays, plus Skype for general A/V 'chat'

A driving lesson can help you get up to speed with all the little time-saving shortcuts - which are often present in various video tutoria;s, but not necessarily 'explained' or 'mentioned'. Even now, after year's of use, I still learn new shortcuts watching others at work!!

Cheers,

Just thought I would throw this out......you may already know this.....my brother informed me that Skype has desktop sharing too.....he helped my dad with some problem he was having with his computer that way.
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: ammcdavid on 2010 August 23 18:35:44
Hi Nigel,

 See my articles in Astro Photo Insights for a complete walkthrough of a PI process flow. I need to talk to Al and see if I can publish those articles on my own site but at the same time I think that an API subscription is well worth the few $$ it costs, even when I exclude my own articles :)

Already this forum is paying dividends and I haven't even used PI yet......I had been considering subscribing to API for a year or more......if your process flow is pretty detailed.....that would be worth it right there.
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nigel Ball on 2010 August 26 11:47:56
Already this forum is paying dividends and I haven't even used PI yet......I had been considering subscribing to API for a year or more......if your process flow is pretty detailed.....that would be worth it right there.

Hi David(?)

AstroPhotoInsight is a great magazine.

I've found the articles by Sander and they do indeed give a workflow. The articles exist in the following issues

Jun 2009 Vol 5, issue 3 Pg 12-20 Processing by Example Part 1
Aug 2009 Vol 5, issue 4. Pg 13-21 Processing by Example Part 2
Feb 2010 Vol 6, issue 1 Pg 15-23 Processing by Example Part 3

As a newbie or 4 days on PI I found the articles very interesting and informative with lots of labelled screenshots - thoroughly recommended :D

HTH

Nigel
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: ammcdavid on 2010 August 26 17:53:17
Already this forum is paying dividends and I haven't even used PI yet......I had been considering subscribing to API for a year or more......if your process flow is pretty detailed.....that would be worth it right there.

Hi David(?)

AstroPhotoInsight is a great magazine.

I've found the articles by Sander and they do indeed give a workflow. The articles exist in the following issues

Jun 2009 Vol 5, issue 3 Pg 12-20 Processing by Example Part 1
Aug 2009 Vol 5, issue 4. Pg 13-21 Processing by Example Part 2
Feb 2010 Vol 6, issue 1 Pg 15-23 Processing by Example Part 3

As a newbie or 4 days on PI I found the articles very interesting and informative with lots of labelled screenshots - thoroughly recommended :D

HTH

Nigel

Nigel,
Sorry......name is Andy....I should have at least signed off properly. 

Anyhow, I will get signed up for API right away so I can peruse their back issues.  I do have some of their older issues and they are VERY informative.  Since I am an engineer by education and trade, I tend to want to "read the manual" on any new skill/knowledge I try to gain.  I typically don't just "try stuff" and learn by a multitude of failures to painstakingly gain a bit of skill.  Once I get the concept down and the overall "feel" of a piece of software, then I will start an experimentation phase.  In short, I don't want to re-invent the wheel and get frustrated at the front end.....I want some early successes then progress to more difficult tasks.  From this forum and the various other avenues for support, that shouldn't be a problem.  However, I do wish this entire body of knowledge was contained in a single digital manual or better yet, a DVD. (did I say I really like my manuals?  ;D)

Andy

Andy
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: nemecl on 2010 September 12 15:01:01
I may be too old (76) for this. Even the forum seems to be kind of complicated. Anyway, I installed the trial version on my new not-the-best I5 computer (still three times faster than the next best one) and I am trying to figure out how to use the program. I am more than impressed what it CAN do (the processing examples are very impressive) but I am starting simple.

I wonder whether some kind of 'rank beginners' corner can be established. So far, I have been using for my DSLR image ImagesPlus program that is not very sophisticated compared Pixinsight but very easy to use. Some three levels below what PT can do.

Well, here what I tried to do and got stuck immediately. I converted, calibrated, aligned and stacked some 30 images of Pacman Nebula and created an ImagePlus format .fit file. The file can be loaded in PT - three high contrast 'gray' images come up. What do they represent? The RGB channels? What to do with them? I have no clue.

Before I give up (there is a lot of things I cannot do at 76 I could do at 36, needless to say), I would like to get some gentle general guidance.

It may make no sense for the gurus here to descend to the depth of ignorance of folks like me - if so, tell me that privately and/or with the legendary Spanish courtesy.
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Juan Conejero on 2010 September 12 16:03:39
Hi,

Welcome to PixInsight Forum, and thank you for your kind words about PixInsight.

Quote
and created an ImagePlus format .fit file. The file can be loaded in PT - three high contrast 'gray' images come up. What do they represent? The RGB channels? What to do with them?

Indeed, they are the individual channels of a RGB color image. Unfortunately ImagesPlus stores color images in FITS files in a particular way that is different from what PixInsight expects. IP's color FITS files are understood as multiple-image files by PixInsight; that's why you get three separate grayscale images when you open one of them.

The workaround is easy though:

- Open the ChannelCombination tool (Process > ChannelManagement > ChannelCombination).

- By default the RGB space is selected in ChannelCombination, so you don't need to change it. Just select the correct R, G and B images in their respective slots (click the blue triangular buttons to select the images from a list).

- Click the blue circular button at the bottom left corner of the ChannelCombination tool (Apply Global), or equivalently  press F6. This will generate a new RGB color image.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: nemecl on 2010 September 13 00:40:11
I will try what you suggest. There are FIT file and there are FIT files. I do not believe that a generally accepted standard exist - I looked into that some time ago, not recently.

Well, this may get me over the first hurdle. More to come...

Thanks for a prompt reply.
LN
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: nemecl on 2010 September 13 15:25:21
Yes, it worked. Having a 'standard' RGB image, I have to figure out what to do with it and in what sequence.

I wrote about 'beginners' corner'. Maybe someone will find little time to put together a tutorial for complete beginners not familiar with the terms and processes available.

Like Level 0 - do this
      Level 1 - add to 0 something else

and so forth. It may not be feasible, I reaize. BTW, any suggestion about books that would help? I have probably obsolete AIP4WIN 2.0 and the corresponding program that I used only briefly before switching to ImagesPlus. It was published 2006 but the material may be older than that.

Is there something better in English?
Title: Re: Introduction and hello!
Post by: Nocturnal on 2010 September 13 16:40:15
I think HAIP is an excellent book to read and study. Things don't change -that- rapidly. Photons still generate electrons and the ADC still adds noise.