PixInsight Forum (historical)
PixInsight => Announcements => Topic started by: Juan Conejero on 2009 October 05 03:03:16
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[Texto en Español al final]
Hi everyone,
The PixInsight LE freeware application was first published in 2004. The free LE (Limited Edition) application has represented the initial development stages of the PixInsight project, as well as the first public release of PixInsight.
After nearly five years since the last update (LE version 1.0.2.143), today we have made the decision to discontinue PixInsight LE. We know this may be a controversial decision, but we have at least three strong reasons to take it:
- PixInsight LE is a completely obsolete application. It does not provide a minimally accurate idea of PixInsight's current state of development.
- PixInsight LE is only available on Windows, which is contrary to what we want to achieve with PixInsight. Within the goals and general philosophy behind PixInsight, it is unfair to continue maintenance of a freeware product for a single platform.
- For a long time, PixInsight LE has been counterproductive to the aspirations of the PixInsight project. PixInsight LE is very often seen as a tool which is only valid to solve a very specific problem (gradient removal with the DynamicBackgroundExtraction tool, a.k.a. DBE), and nearly nothing more. Actually, PixInsight LE, even being obsolete, provides a reasonably complete, 32-bit post-processing solution, which is able to achieve better results than other commercial products. It always amazes us when we read descriptions of how PixInsight LE is used for DBE, then the image is downgraded to 16-bit, as a necessary step to open it with other application, with the purpose to apply levels, curves, etc. That is quite disappointing because PixInsight LE offers far better histogram and curves transformations, not to mention advanced color saturation adjustments, morphological transformations, wavelet transforms, noise reduction tools, pixel math, an efficient masking system, and an accurate color management system, among other tools and features. Unfortunately, we feel that today PixInsight LE has become an obstacle to understand what PixInsight actually is, what it can do, and how it evolves.
Based on these considerations, from now on the old PixInsight LE application will no longer be available for download from our servers.
As for a new limited edition of PixInsight, we certainly have some projects in mind, but still nothing decided, and absolutely no time line available. The next PixInsight LE will not be a free product, but it of course will provide an outstanding set of advanced image processing capabilities at a very reasonable cost, and it will be available at least on Linux/X11, Mac OS X, and Windows platforms.
Thank you for your interest and support.
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Hola a todos
La aplicación gratuita PixInsight LE fue publicada por primera vez en 2004. La aplicación PixInsight LE (Limited Edition) ha representado el estado inicial de desarrollo del proyecto PixInsight, así como la primera versión de PixInsight disponible públicamente.
Tras casi cinco años desde la última actualización (LE versión 1.0.2.143), hoy hemos tomado la decisión de terminar la distribución de PixInsight LE. Sabemos que ésta puede ser una decisión controvertida, pero tenemos al menos tres fuertes razones para tomarla:
- PixInsight LE es una aplicación totalmente obsoleta. No proporciona una idea mínimamente precisa del estado actual de desarrollo de PixInsight.
- PixInsight LE sólo está disponible para Windows, lo cual es contrario a lo que queremos conseguir con PixInsight. Dentro de los objetivos y la filosofía general que hay detrás de PixInsight, es injusto mantener un producto gratuito en una única plataforma.
- Durante mucho tiempo PixInsight LE ha sido contraproducente para las aspiraciones del proyecto PixInsight. PixInsight LE es visto muy a menudo como una herramienta válida sólo para resolver un problema muy específico (eliminación de gradientes con la herramienta DynamicBackgroundExtraction, o DBE), y prácticamente nada más. En realidad, PixInsight LE, aún estando obsoleta, es una solución razonablemente completa para el postproceso en 32 bits, la cual es capaz de proporcionar resultados mejores que otros productos comerciales. Siempre nos sorprendemos cuando leemos descripciones de cómo PixInsight LE es utilizado para DBE, y entonces la imagen es degradada a 16 bits como un paso previo necesario para abrirla con otra aplicación, con el propósito de aplicar niveles, curvas, etc. Esto es bastante decepcionante porque PixInsight LE ofrece implementaciones muy superiores de transformaciones de histogramas y curvas, por no mencionar ajustes avanzados de saturación de color, transformaciones morfológicas, transformaciones de wavelets, herramientas de reducción de ruido, pixel math, un sistema eficiente de mácaras, y un sistema preciso de gestión del color, entre otras herramientas y características. Desafortunadamente, sentimos que hoy PixInsight LE se ha convertido en un obstáculo para comprender lo que es realmente PixInsight, lo que puede hacer, y cómo evoluciona.
Basándonos en estas consideraciones, a partir de este momento la antigua aplicación PixInsight LE ya no estará disponible para su descarga desde nuestros servidores.
En cuanto a una nueva edición limitada de PixInsight, ciertamente tenemos algunos proyectos en mente, pero todavía no hay nada decidido, y no tenemos ningún plazo previsto. La siguiente aplicación PixInsight LE no será un producto gratuito, pero por supuesto proporcionará un conjunto excelente de herramientas avanzadas de procesamiento de imágenes a un precio muy razonable, y estará disponible al menos en plataformas Linux/X11, Mac OS X y Windows.
Gracias por vuestro soporte e interés.
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Hi Juan,
"The king is dead - long live the King" !!
A difficult decision for you, but one that I believe IS the correct one - for all the reasons that you already mentioned.
Personally I see no reason to create a 'modern' version of 'LE' - I can't really see the purpose of this. Maybe it 'could' be possible to release a version of PI that did not include 'some' of the key modules (such as ImageIntegration, StarAlignment - for example), the idea being that a 'new user' could extend their 30-day free trial by purchasing a minimal licence, giving access to only the most rudimentary core processes, the remainder being made available on upgrade to the full licence.
This would give new users more time to experience the PI environment, allowing them to choose 'when' to commit to the expense of the full licence, once their processing requirements justified that extra expense. As licensed users however, they would be on the PI mailing list, and would see how PI was evolving - realising that the biggest advantage over PI is that it IS a 'dynamic' and 'evolving' creature.
As you already effectively make the software available on a 'per licenced user' basis, this may actually fit with your current distribution methods. In fact, it might even be possible to support academia as well - an area of marketing that you do not currently cover.
Food for thought ?
Cheers,
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[Texto en Español al final]
As for a new limited edition of PixInsight, we certainly have some projects in mind, but still nothing decided, and absolutely no time line available. The next PixInsight LE will not be a free product, but it of course will provide an outstanding set of advanced image processing capabilities at a very reasonable cost, and it will be available at least on Linux/X11, Mac OS X, and Windows platforms.
Thank you for your interest and support.
I was going to suggest this. I think your on the right track Juan. My favorites for this are modules such as DBE, noise reduction, HDR for this type of LE version. I see people buy pluggins or stand alone software for these features now.
Max
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I don't think we need to complicate matters with a Light version of PI. The 30 day trial should be enough to let people decide if PI is for them or not. PI is not *that* expensive. Cheaper than PS anyway and while that has an Elements version that is not very suitable for AP. At least I hardly never read of people that use PS-E for AP.
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If you do an LE version I would have just histogram, colour calibration, neutralisation, ACDNR and a few other bits. BUT I would have all the other features in there, but in a way that they cannot be used. In this way LE users will see all the stuff they don't have access to....and in my experience that will bug them to hell >:D and they will end up buying the upgrade. Just a thought.
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Something like you buy the LE version and get 30 days of full eval before it disables all the Standard features. Then you have an option to upgrade to Standard.
One of the benefits that I see is that such a construct means that PCL has some kind of licencing support which may enable 3rd party developers to provide commercial modules as well. That is already possible if 3rd party devs add their own licensing to their modules of course.
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My impression is that you cannot see all the strength that PI has within the 30 day test period. At least in my case it took much longer to appreciate what I had bought based on an intuitive feeling that the whole product philosophy was just the most advanced available.
Maybe an unlicensed version should have most/all features of the full applications, but always leave a prominent watermark in processed images. That way people could play with PI whenever they find that it may solve a specific problem, and if it actually does, the need to buy it to get rid of the watermarking... . Just don't make the licensing model too complex, I love todays simplicity.
My 2 cents,
Georg
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I think with Harry's and Juan's videos as well as my articles in API 30 days should be enough to find out if you like it enough. Nebulosity puts an aggressive watermark on the image during the trial and that makes eval very hard. A PI watermark would have to be subtle so it doesn't interfere with eval but bad enough that you won't want to publish with it.
I agree simple licensing is desirable. I don't have a strong opinion either way (I'm hooked already so it's too late for me :) but having just PI standard with a 30 day eval should be enough. If you really need more time then you can ask Juan for an eval extension at his discretion.
If a PI-LE is desirable I'd choose these features:
- DBE
- histogram
- curves
- ACDNR
Restrictions:
- subset of scripts and no ability to add any
- no ability to add modules
All this depends on the desired price point of course. You'd add more for a $100 version than a $50 version.
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Hi
I agree with your decision and also agree that it was a distraction :P
Personally I think the 30 day eval period is fine as its designed to give a taster , you would need to give a 2 year eval period if you wanted to learn everything :cheesy:
By the way sander are you doing any more API articles
Regards Harry
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Hi Harry,
the latest API got past me before I got around to writing it but a part 3 is scheduled, yes.
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Hola Juan, english below
Nada que objetar con respecto a tu decisión de retirar de circulación PixInsight LE, es comprensible.
Sin embargo te quiero hacer una reflexión acerca de la información que le acompañaba. Aunque gran parte de ella está obsoleta, hay cosas muy interesantes que es una pena que se pierdan (a mi me enseñaron mucho), pienso en la información sobre Curves, o sobre la luminancia e distintos espacios RGB, etc.
Un saludo
Jordi
Hi Juan
Nothing to say with respect to your decision of discontinuing PixInsight , it is understandable.
Nevertheless I want to you to make a reflection about the information that accompanied the program. Although great part of it is obsolete, there are very interesting topics that is a pity that get lost. I think, for example, about the information on Curves, or the luminance at different RGB working spaces, etc.
Regards
Jordi
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Jordi, esa información no se perderá. Será integrada (actualizada) a la wiki que pensamos hacer.
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Gracias Carlos
saludos
Jordi
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Para evitar confusiones, con actualizada quiero decir, que se refiera a PI Core. La documentación antigua de LE era posible descargarla completa. Si la necesitas, avísame.
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Hard to believe this topic died so quickly :) Probably because most of us already have PI and couldn't imagine being happy with a 'reduced' version.
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I think that having the original PE was a bonus – although it was far outdated. I downloaded the trial and ended up buying it as the trial would have ended before I would have been skilled enough to use any other features. I am still learning, but I am glad I did buy it.
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I think that having the original PE was a bonus – although it was far outdated. I downloaded the trial and ended up buying it as the trial would have ended before I would have been skilled enough to use any other features. I am still learning, but I am glad I did buy it.
And, I still have your request on my desktop - for a copy of the 'original' PixInsight LE video tutorials. Although, I really can't see any advantage in using them now. Perhaps we should just agree that it IS pointless me trying to figure out how to send several hundred Mb of 'historic' data over the 'Net !!
Cheers,
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I think that having the original PE was a bonus – although it was far outdated. I downloaded the trial and ended up buying it as the trial would have ended before I would have been skilled enough to use any other features. I am still learning, but I am glad I did buy it.
And, I still have your request on my desktop - for a copy of the 'original' PixInsight LE video tutorials. Although, I really can't see any advantage in using them now. Perhaps we should just agree that it IS pointless me trying to figure out how to send several hundred Mb of 'historic' data over the 'Net !!
Cheers,
Niall at the time i would have loved them, probably in hindsight starting from the original can explain why and where things have gone in the programme. I still appreciated the fact that you considered the request ;)
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- PixInsight LE is a completely obsolete application.
This is not problem. PixInsight LE is working without problem, we don't need a support for it.
- For a long time, PixInsight LE has been counterproductive to the aspirations of the PixInsight project. PixInsight LE is very often seen as a tool which is only valid to solve a very specific problem (gradient removal with the DynamicBackgroundExtraction tool, a.k.a. DBE), and nearly nothing more.
True, but all users know, that this is LE - limited edition. Standard edition is providing more function... This is clear for all.
Based on these considerations, from now on the old PixInsight LE application will no longer be available for download from our servers.
As for a new limited edition of PixInsight, we certainly have some projects in mind, but still nothing decided, and absolutely no time line available. The next PixInsight LE will not be a free product...
What is with old version? My friend ask me, if he need to uninstall it?
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I don't think Juan is suggesting anyone un-intall PI-LE. It would be a waste of time to ask anyway because no one would comply :)
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Thank you. Old version of PixInsight LE is all the time free. Right?
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Yes, it is free. Just it will not be on PixInsight's server anymore. And, to be true, saying that it is a limited edition is not close to reality. It was, when first released. The Standard edition shared the same interface, and it just included more processes. Right now, the PixInsight application has little of this first version... the idea behind the interface, but the code is all new, way too improved and refined, and there many things that we had not dreamed of at that time (image containers, history of the images, installable modules... uffff.... almost and end-less list). This is why LE is obsolete. It does not reflect what is happening right now with the main application.